The Historic Jesus (Yeshua) Christ:

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The Historic Jesus (Yeshua) Christ:

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 pm

The Historic Jesus (Yeshua) Christ:

INTRODUCTION:

Worldly critics do not want to accept the Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, and are always trying to find fault with it and failing to apply the constraints given in it when applying logic and reasoning. In fact, they sometimes even label events whose understanding is simple if you apply the constraints therein given by calling them contradictions which they are not.

In addition, they often claim, without proof of course, that accounts about him by contemporary historians have been "doctored". Why, because they want to justify their none belief in their Creator, Almighty God (YHWH).
<<<"Interestingly, the first type of records comes from what are known commonly as "hostile" sources-writers who mentioned Jesus in a negative light or derogatory fashion. Such penmen certainly were not predisposed to further the cause of Christ or otherwise to add credence to His existence. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They rejected His teachings and often reviled Him as well. Thus, one can appeal to them without the charge of built-in bias. " [source - Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation, The Historical Christ-Fact or Fiction? by Kyle Butt, M.A., sub-part HOSTILE TESTIMONY]>>>.

Interestingly, as noted by E.P. Sanders in his book, "The Historical Figure of Jesus," at page 49, he noted that most of the First Century literature that survives unto today that mentions Jesus (Yeshua) was written by a small elite class of Romans that detested him and considered his as "merely a troublesome rabble-rouser and magician."[source - The Historical Figure of Jesus, by E.P. Sanders 1933, at page 49].

With respect C. Tacitus, It is well known that he hated Jesus (Yeshua) and regarded him as a troublesome rabble-rouser and had nothing positive to say about what he referred to as a "deadly superstition," but readily admitted that this individual that he hated had existed as we have seen previously. <<<" His testimony establishes beyond any reasonable doubt that the Christian religion not only was relevant historically, but that Christ, as its originator, was a verifiable historical figure of such prominence that He even attracted the attention of the Roman emperor himself!" [source - Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation, The Historical Christ-Fact or Fiction? by Kyle Butt, M.A., sub-part HOSTILE TESTIMONY]>>>.

Therefore the only conclusion is that Jesus (Yeshua) was a real person, and that more has been written about him than any other person in human history. <<<" Critics do not like having to admit it, but they cannot successfully deny the fact that Jesus had a greater impact on the world than any single life before or after. Nor can they deny the fact that Jesus died at the hands of Pontius Pilate." !" [source - Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation, The Historical Christ-Fact or Fiction? by Kyle Butt, M.A., sub-part HOSTILE TESTIMONY]>>>.

Michael Grant stated (in 1977) that the view is derived from a lack of application of historical methods: <<<"...if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned. ... To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." [source - M. Grant, Jesus: An Historian's Review, pp. 199-200 , as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And the New Testament is full of eyewitness accounts by the Apostles and Disciples of Jesus (Yeshua) that associated with him during his life and no such account exist for any other personage of antiquity.

THE REALITY:

WITH RESPECT FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS:

Worldly critics make the false claim which on the surface sound valid, but on closer examination are not. Let's look at one of these:

<<<" The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, writing during the second half of the first century CE, produced two major works: History of the Jewish War and Antiquities of the Jews. Two apparent references to Jesus occur in the second of these works. The longer, and more famous passage, occurs in Book 18 of Antiquities and reads as follows (taken from the standard accepted Greek text of Antiquities 18:63-64 by L. H. Feldman in the Loeb Classical Library):

About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats and as a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared to them restored to life, for the prophets of God had prophesied these and countless other marvellous things about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.

This passage is called the Testimonium Flavianum, and is sometimes cited by propagandists as independent confirmation of Jesus' existence and resurrection. However, there is excellent reason to suppose that this passage was not written in its present form by Josephus, but was either inserted or amended by later Christians:

1. The early Christian writer Origen claims that Josephus did NOT recognize Jesus as the Messiah, in direct contradiction to the above passage, where Josephus says, "He was the Messiah." Thus, we may conclude that this particular phrase at least was a later insertion. (The version given above was, however, known to Jerome and in the time of Eusebius. Jerome's Latin version, however, renders "He was the Messiah" by "He was believed to be the Christ.") Furthermore, other early Christian writers fail to cite this passage, even though it would have suited their purposes to do so. There is thus firm evidence that this passage was tampered with at some point, even if parts of it do date back to Josephus.

2. The passage is highly pro-Christian. It is hard to imagine that Josephus, a Pharisaic Jew, would write such a laudatory passage about a man supposedly killed for blasphemy. Indeed, the passage seems to make Josephus himself out to be a Christian, which was certainly not the case.

Many Biblical scholars reject the entire Testimonium Flavianum as a later Christian insertion. However, some maintain that Josephus's work originally did refer to Jesus, but that Christian copyists later expanded and made the text more favorable to Jesus. These scholars cite such phrases as "tribe of Christians" and "wise man" as being atypical Christian usages, but plausible if coming from a first century Palestinian Jew. Of course, a suitably clever Christian wishing to "dress up" Josephus would not have much trouble imitating his style.

Philip Burns (pib@merle.acns.nwu.edu) has provided some of the following material on the following alternate versions or reconstructions of the Testimonium Flavianum.

One possible reconstruction of the Testimonium Flavianum, suggested by James Charlesworth, goes like this, with probably Christian interpolations enclosed in brackets: [source - not given by worldly critic posting same]>>>.

Now on close examination of this critics writings we see internal problems as follows to their false contentions regarding Jesus (Yeshua).

<<<" The early Christian writer Origen claims that Josephus did NOT recognize Jesus as the Messiah[[Thereby testifying to his real existence]][[Of course Josephus did not recognize him as the Messiah, but that is far different from that of recognizing his existence and is like saying an American did not recognize Adolph Hitler as his leader which in no way implies none recognition of his having existed.]][[As to calling him the Messiah, that would be like historian H.G. Wells calling Adolph Hitler the leader of the Axis Powers, and in no way implying his belief in him as his leader]], in direct contradiction to the above passage, where Josephus says, "He was the Messiah." Thus, we may conclude that this particular phrase at least was a later insertion. (The version given above was, however, known to Jerome and in the time of Eusebius[[Early scholars did not question whether Jesus (Yeshua) had existed, only later critics far removed in time from his day did]]. Jerome's Latin version, however, renders "He was the Messiah" by "He was believed to be the Christ.") Furthermore, other early Christian writers fail to cite this passage, even though it would have suited their purposes to do so. There is thus firm evidence that this passage was tampered with at some point, even if parts of it do date back to Josephus. ">>>.

Now let's look at another passage in Josephus' "Antiquities of the Jews" found on page 598 of "The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus,

<<<"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the Sanhedrin of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned; but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, and such as were the most uneasy at the breach of the laws, they disliked what was done; they also sent to the king [Agrippa], desiring him to send to Ananus that he should act so no more, for that what he had already done was not to be justified; nay, some of them went also to meet Albinus, as he was upon his journey from Alexandria, and informed him that it was not lawful for Ananus to assemble a Sanhedrim without his consent." [source - The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Whiston, A.M. and Published by The John C. Winston Company, and containing the "Antiquities of the Jews" and the "Wars of the Jews" and other items, page 598]>>>.

Also, these critics willfully overlook what Josephus said with regard to John the Baptist as follows,

<<<"2. Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from God, and that very justly, as punishment of what he did against John, that was called the Baptist; for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards God, and as to come to baptism; for the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified beforehand by righteousness. Now when [many] others came in crowds about him, for they were very greatly moved [or pleased] by hearing his words, Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion, (for they seemed ready to do any thing he should advise,) thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause, and not bring himself into difficulties, bty sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it should be too late. Accordingly he was sent a prisoner, out of Herod's suspicious temper, to Macherus, the castle I before mentioned, and was there put to death. Now the Jews had an opinion that the destruction of this army was sent as a punishment upon Herod, and a mark of God's displeasure to him." ." [source - The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Whiston, A.M. and Published by The John C. Winston Company, and containing the "Antiquities of the Jews" and the "Wars of the Jews" and other items, page 540.]>>>.

And now let's look at the passage in the Antiquities of the Jews that the critics like to claim was doctored in context, but goes right in the flow with everything else Josephus wrote,

<<<"...So he bid the Jews himself go away; but they bodily casting reproaches upon him, he gave the soldiers that signal which had been beforehand agreed on; who laid upon them such greater blows than Pilate had commanded them, and equally punished those that were tumultuous, and those that were not; nor did they spare them in the least; and since the people were unarmed, and were caught by men prepared for what they were about, there were a great number of them slain by this means, and others of them ran away wounded. And thus an end was put to this sedition.

3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was {the} Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him are not extinct at this day.

4. About the same time also another sad calamity put the Jews into disorder, and certain shameful practices happened about the temple of Isis that was at Rome. I will now first take notice of the wicked attempts about the temple of Isis, and will then give an account of the Jewish affairs. ..." [source - The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus, translated by William Whiston, A.M. and Published by The John C. Winston Company, and containing the "Antiquities of the Jews" and the "Wars of the Jews" and other items, page 535]>>>.

Now, Yes, Flavius Josephus was a Jew and almost certainly did not believe in Jesus (Yeshua) as the Christ, but he was employed by the Roman Army as a historian and dutifully recorded reality whether he agreed religiously with it or not, just as well-known Roman Chatholic historian Will Durant did, who wrote, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it ... pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist results. From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity ... [Caesar and Christ, page 595) (Lamson, Newton & Durant)]. The problem is critics do NOT want to recognize the objectivity of good historians and compilers of facts, but wish to unjustly use their objectivity to claim their works have been doctored and/or are just plain wrong.

Some claim what Josephus wrote are forgeries, but an examination of his work quickly shows this can not be the case. Let's look at some of what he wrote in brief:

<<<"Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others [or, some of his companions]: and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned: but as for those who seemed the most equitable of the citizens, [source - "Antiquities of the Jews, from The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus as translated by William Whiston, A.M., published by the John C. Winston Co., of Philadelphia, page 598.]>>>.

And

<<<"2. Now some of the Jews thought that the destruction of Herod's army came from god, and that very justly, as a punishment of what he did against John, that was called the baptist; for Herod slew him, who was a good man, and commanded the Jews to exercise virtue, both as to righteousness towards one another, and piety towards god, and so to come to baptism; for that the washing [with water] would be acceptable to him, if they made use of it, not in order to the putting away [or the remission] of some sins [only], but for the purification of the body; supposing still that the soul was thoroughly purified before hand by righteousness. Now when [many] others came in crowds about him, for they were very greatly moved [or pleased] by hearing his words, Herod, who feared lest the great influence John had over the people might put it into his power and inclination to raise a rebellion, (for they seemed ready to do any thing he should advise,) thought it best, by putting him to death, to prevent any mischief he might cause, and not bring himself into difficulties, by sparing a man who might make him repent of it when it should be too late. [source - "Antiquities of the Jews, from The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus as translated by William Whiston, A.M., published by the John C. Winston Co., of Philadelphia, page 540.]>>>.

And,

<<<"3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher os such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned his to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. Ant the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day. [source - "Antiquities of the Jews, from The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus as translated by William Whiston, A.M., published by the John C. Winston Co., of Philadelphia, page 535.]>>>.

And,

<<<"Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city....

WITH RESPECT P. CORNELIUS TACTIUS (AD 56 - C. 120):

(Cornelius Tacitus), c.A.D. 55-c.A.D. 117, Roman historian. Little is known for certain of his life. He was a friend of Pliny the Younger and married the daughter of Cnaeus Julius Agricola. In A.D. 97 he was appointed substitute consul under Nerva, and later he was proconsul of Asia. The first of his works was the Dialogus [dialogue], a discussion of oratory in the style of Cicero, demonstrating to some degree why Tacitus was celebrated as an eloquent speaker; this work was long disputed, but his authorship is now generally accepted. Tacitus then wrote a biography of Agricola, expressing his admiration for his father-in-law as a good and able man. His small treatise De origine et situ Germanorum [concerning the origin and location of the Germans], commonly called the Germania or Germany, supplies (along with the earlier account of Julius Caesar) the principal written material on the Germanic tribes. Archaeology bears out the accuracy of Tacitus, but the work is not objective; it is a picture of the simple Germans glorified by comparison with the corruption and luxurious immorality of the Romans. This moral purpose and severe criticism of contemporary Rome, fallen from the virtuous vigor of the old republic, also underlies his two long works, commonly called in English the Histories (of which four books and part of a fifth survive) and the Annals (of which twelve books-Books I-VI, XI-XVI-survive). The extant books of the Histories cover only the reign of Galba (A.D. 68-69) and the beginning (to A.D. 70) of the reign of Vespasian but give a thorough view of Roman life-persons, places, and events. The surviving books of the Annals tell of the reign of Tiberius, of the last years of Claudius, and of the first years of Nero. The account contains incisive character sketches, ironic passages, and eloquent moral conclusions. The declamatory writing of the Dialogus is replaced in the historical works by a polished and highly individual style, a wide range of vocabulary, and an intricate and startling syntax.[source - The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition. 2001-07].

And another encyclopedia said, <<<" Publius (or Gaius) Cornelius Tacitus (ca. 56 - ca. 117) was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire. The surviving portions of his two major works-the Annals and the Histories-examine the reigns of the Roman Emperors Tiberius, Claudius, Nero and those that reigned in the Year of the Four Emperors. These two works span the history of the Roman Empire from the death of Augustus in 14 AD to (presumably) the death of emperor Domitian in 96 AD. There are significant lacunae in the surviving texts.

Other works by Tacitus discuss oratory (in dialogue format, see Dialogus de oratoribus), Germania (in De origine et situ Germanorum), and biographical notes about his father-in-law Agricola, primarily during his campaign in Britannia (see De vita et moribus Iulii Agricolae).

Tacitus' historiographical style in his major works is annalistic. An author writing in the latter part of the Silver Age of Latin literature, his work is distinguished by a boldness and sharpness of wit, and a compact and sometimes unconventional use of Latin."[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>>.

Now let's look at what this none Christian worshipper of the Unconquered Sun had to say about Jesus (Yeshua). <<<" The Roman historian Tacitus, writing in his Annals (c. 116) about the Great Fire of Rome (64), included an account of how the emperor Nero blamed the Christians in Rome for the disaster and initiated the first known persecution of early Christians by the Romans. This has become one of the best known and most discussed passages of Tacitus' works.[1] Although partly aimed at showing the inhumanity of the emperor, Tacitus' remarks have been studied more by modern scholars for information about his own religious attitudes and about the early history of Christianity.

Tacitus describes the support for the homeless provided by Nero and the rebuilding of the city, then refers to religious rituals carried out based on a consultation of the Sibylline Books.[2] However, none of this did away with the suspicion that the fire had been started on Nero's orders:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths. Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired.

Tacitus then returns to the topic of Nero's reputation and the effect on it of these events: "Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of a charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."[3]

References:

1. ^ Syme 533 n. 5 ("This famous chapter has provoked an enormous literature...").

2. ^ Tacitus, Annals 15.39-43.

3. ^ a b Tacitus, Annals 15.44, translated by Church and Brodribb.

[source - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]>>>

The Catholic Encyclopedia said the following on C. Tactius,

<<<" We possess at least the testimony of Tacitus (A.D. 54-119) for the statements that the Founder of the Christian religion, a deadly superstition in the eyes of the Romans, had been put to death by the procurator Pontius Pilate under the reign of Tiberius; that His religion, though suppressed for a time, broke forth again not only throughout Judea where it had originated, but even in Rome, the conflux of all the streams of wickness and shamelessness; furthermore, that Nero had diverted from himself the suspicion of the burning of Rome by charging the Christians with the crime; that these latter were not guilty of arson, though they deserved their fate on account of their universal misanthropy. Tacitus, moreover, describes some of the horrible torments to which Nero subjected the Christians (Ann., XV, xliv). The Roman writer confounds the Christians with the Jews, considering them as a especially abject Jewish sect; how little he investigated the historical truth of even the Jewish records may be inferred from the credulity with which he accepted the absurd legends and calumnies about the origin of he Hebrew people (Hist., V, iii, iv)..

AND, Those who regard the passage as spurious,

First, there are those who consider the whole passage as spurious. The principal reasons for this view appear to be the following:

* Josephus could not represent Jesus Christ as a simple moralist, and on the other hand he could not emphasize the Messianic prophecies and expectations without offending the Roman susceptibilities;

* the above cited passage from Josephus is said to be unknown to Origen and the earlier patristic writers;

* its very place in the Josephan text is uncertain, since Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., II, vi) must have found it before the notices concerning Pilate, while it now stands after them.

But the spuriousness of the disputed Josephan passage does not imply the historian's ignorance of the facts connected with Jesus Christ. Josephus's report of his own juvenile precocity before the Jewish teachers (Vit., 2) reminds one of the story of Christ's stay in the Temple at the age of twelve; the description of his shipwreck on his journey to Rome (Vit., 3) recalls St. Paul's shipwreck as told in the Acts; finally his arbitrary introduction of a deceit practised by the priests of Isis on a Roman lady, after the chapter containing his supposed allusion to Jesus, shows a disposition to explain away the virgin birth of Jesus and to prepare the falsehoods embodied in the later Jewish writings.".[source - The Catholic Encyclopedia]>>>.

OTHER EARLY PAGAN WRITERS ON CHRIST:

Here is what some other early pagan writers who lived in the First Century had to say about Christ,

<<<"B. Suetonius, Another Roman writer who shows his acquaintance with Christ and the Christians is Suetonius (A.D. 75-160). It has been noted that Suetonius considered Christ (Chrestus) as a Roman insurgent who stirred up seditions under the reign of Claudius (A.D. 41-54): "Judaeos, impulsore Chresto, assidue tumultuantes (Claudius) Roma expulit" (Clau., xxv). In his life of Nero he regards that emperor as a public benefactor on account of his severe treatment of the Christians: "Multa sub eo et animadversa severe, et coercita, nec minus instituta . . . . afflicti Christiani, genus hominum superstitious novae et maleficae" (Nero, xvi). The Roman writer does not understand that the Jewish troubles arose from the Jewish antagonism to the Messianic character of Jesus Christ and to the rights of the Christian Church.

C. Pliny the Younger

Of greater importance is the letter of Pliny the Younger to the Emperor Trajan (about A.D. 61-115), in which the Governor of Bithynia consults his imperial majesty as to how to deal with the Christians living within his jurisdiction. On the one hand, their lives were confessedly innocent; no crime could be proved against them excepting their Christian belief, which appeared to the Roman as an extravagant and perverse superstition. On the other hand, the Christians could not be shaken in their allegiance to Christ, Whom they celebrated as their God in their early morning meetings (Ep., X, 97, 98). Christianity here appears no longer as a religion of criminals, as it does in the texts of Tacitus and Suetonius; Pliny acknowledges the high moral principles of the Christians, admires their constancy in the Faith (pervicacia et inflexibilis obstinatio), which he appears to trace back to their worship of Christ (carmenque Christo, quasi Deo, dicere).

D. Other pagan writers

The remaining pagan witnesses are of less importance: In the second century Lucian sneered at Christ and the Christians, as he scoffed at the pagan gods. He alludes to Christ's death on the Cross, to His miracles, to the mutual love prevailing among the Christians ("Philopseudes", nn. 13, 16; "De Morte Pereg"). There are also alleged allusions to Christ in Numenius (Origen, "Contra Cels", IV, 51), to His parables in Galerius, to the earthquake at the Crucifixion in Phlegon ( Origen, "Contra Cels.", II, 14). Before the end of the second century, the logos alethes of Celsus, as quoted by Origen (Contra Cels., passim), testifies that at that time the facts related in the Gospels were generally accepted as historically true. However scanty the pagan sources of the life of Christ may be, they bear at least testimony to His existence, to His miracles, His parables, His claim to Divine worship, His death on the Cross, and to the more striking characteristics of His religion." ).[source - The Catholic Encyclopedia]>>>.

JEWISH SOURCE OF THE FIRST CENTURY ON CHRIST:

<<<"Philo, who dies after A.D. 40, is mainly important for the light he throws on certain modes of thought and phraseology found again in some of the Apostles. Eusebius (Hist. Eccl., II, iv) indeed preserves a legend that Philo had met St. Peter in Rome during his mission to the Emperor Caius; moreover, that in his work on the contemplative life he describes the life of the Christian Church in Alexandria founded by St. Mark, rather than that of the Essenes and Therapeutae. But it is hardly probable that Philo had heard enough of Christ and His followers to give an historical foundation to the foregoing legends." ).[source - The Catholic Encyclopedia]>>>.

And,

<<<"The historical character of Jesus Christ is also attested by the hostile Jewish literature of the subsequent centuries. His birth is ascribed to an illicit ("Acta Pilati" in Thilo, "Codex apocryph. N.T., I, 526; cf. Justin, "Apol.", I, 35), or even an adulterous, union of His parents (Origen, "Contra Cels.," I, 28, 32). The father's name is Panthera, a common soldier (Gemara "Sanhedrin", viii; "Schabbath", xii, cf. Eisenmenger, "Entdecktes Judenthum", I, 109; Schottgen, "Horae Hebraicae", II, 696; Buxtorf, "Lex. Chald.", Basle, 1639, 1459, Huldreich, "Sepher toledhoth yeshua hannaceri", Leyden, 1705). The last work in its final edition did not appear before the thirteenth century, so that it could give the Panthera myth in its most advanced form. Rosch is of opinion that the myth did not begin before the end of the first century.

See Part 2


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Re: The Historic Jesus (Yeshua) Christ:

Post  Admin on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 pm

Part 2

The later Jewish writings show traces of acquaintance with the murder of the Holy Innocents (Wagenseil, "Confut. Libr.Toldoth", 15; Eisenmenger op. cit., I, 116; Schottgen, op. cit., II, 667), with the flight into Egypt (cf. Josephus, "Ant." XIII, xiii), with the stay of Jesus in the Temple at the age of twelve (Schottgen, op. cit., II, 696), with the call of the disciples ("Sanhedrin", 43a; Wagenseil, op. cit., 17; Schottgen, loc. cit., 713), with His miracles (Origen, "Contra Cels", II, 48; Wagenseil, op. cit., 150; Gemara "Sanhedrin" fol. 17); "Schabbath", fol. 104b; Wagenseil, op.cit., 6, 7, 17), with His claim to be God (Origen, "Contra Cels.", I, 28; cf. Eisenmenger, op. cit., I, 152; Schottgen, loc. cit., 699) with His betrayal by Judas and His death (Origen, "Contra cels.", II, 9, 45, 68, 70; Buxtorf, op. cit., 1458; Lightfoot, "Hor. Heb.", 458, 490, 498; Eisenmenger, loc. cit., 185; Schottgen, loc. cit.,699 700; cf. "Sanhedrin", vi, vii). Celsus (Origen, "Contra Cels.", II, 55) tries to throw doubt on the Resurrection, while Toldoth (cf. Wagenseil, 19) repeats the Jewish fiction that the body of Jesus had been stolen from the sepulchre. "[source - The Catholic Encyclopedia]>>>.

EARLY CHRISTIAN SOURCES INCLUDING THE BIBLE:

<<<"Among the Christian sources of the life of Jesus we need hardly mention the so called Agrapha and Apocrypha. For whether the Agrapha contain Logia of Jesus, or refer to incidents in His life, they are either highly uncertain or present only variations of the Gospel story. The chief value of the Apocrypha consists in their showing the infinite superiority of the Inspired Writings by contrasting the coarse and erroneous productions of the human mind with the simple and sublime truths written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost.

Among the Sacred Books of the New Testament, it is especially the four Gospels and the four great Epistles of St. Paul that are of the highest importance for the construction of the life of Jesus.

The four great Pauline Epistles (Romans, Galatians, and First and Second Corinthinas) can hardly be overestimated by the student of Christ's life; they have at times been called the "fifth gospel"; their authenticity has never been assailed by serious critics; their testimony is also earlier than that of the Gospels, at least most of the Gospels; it is the more valuable because it is incidental and undesigned; it is the testimony of a highly intellectual and cultured writer, who had been the greatest enemy of Jesus, who writes within twenty-five years of the events which he relates. At the same time, these four great Epistles bear witness to all the most important facts in the life of Christ: His Davidic dscent, His poverty, His Messiahship, His moral teaching, His preaching of the kingdom of God, His calling of the apostles, His miraculous power, His claims to be God, His betrayal, His institution of the Holy Eucharist, His passion, crucifixion, burial, resurrection, His repeated appearances (Romans 1:3-4; 5:11; 8:2-3; 8:32; 9:5; 15:8; Galatians 2:17; 3:13; 4:4; 5:21; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 13:4; etc.). However important the four great Epistles may be, the gospels are still more so. Not that any one of them offers a complete biography of Jesus, but they account for the origin of Christianity by the life of its Founder. Questions like the authenticity of the Gospels, the relation between the Synoptic Gospels, and the Fourth, the Synoptic problem, must be studied in the articles referring to these respective subjects." [source - The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII. Published 1910. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1910. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York]>>>.

THE HISTORIC RECORD AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION:

Historic Record:

Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, thus removing the only supporting source for His existence as being in the New Testament. In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."
It is believed by some scholars that Tactius gained his information about Christ from official records, perhaps actual reports written by Pilate. Tactius also wrote about the burning of the Jerusalem temple by the Romans in 70 A.D. The Christians are mentioned as a group that were connected with these events. "All we can gather from this reference is that Tactius was also aware of the existence of Christians other than in the context of their presence in Rome," states Habermas. Gaius Suetonius Tranquillas, chief secretary of Emperor Hadrian, wrote, "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the City." Chrestus is a variant spelling of Christ. Suetonius refers to a wave of riots that broke out in a large Jewish community in Rome during the year 49 A.D. As a result, the Jews were banished from the city.[source - Proving the historic Jesus by By Harry V. Martin, http://sonic.net/sentinel/naij3.html ].>>>.

And,

<<<"F.F. Bruce ("Christian Origins" pp. 29,30) draws attention to the fact that there are references to a history of the Eastern Mediterranean written by a historian called Thallus about 52 AD. Bruce shows elsewhere ("The New Testament Documents", p. 113) that a scholar named Julius Africanus quoted from Thallus, mocking his description of the darkness at the crucifixion of Jesus as due to the eclipse of the sun. This suggests that Thallus wrote an account of the crucifixion of Jesus which occurred some years before he wrote his history in 52 AD.[source - The Historical Christ, http://www.baptistchapel.net/pages.asp?pageid=20651 on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"Tacitus was a Roman historian writing early in the 2nd century A.D. His Annals provide us with a single reference to Jesus of considerable value. Rather frustratingly, much of his work has been lost, including a work which covers the years 29-32, where the trial of Jesus would have been had he recorded it. [Meie.MarJ, 89]
Here is a full quote of the cite of our concern, from Annals 15.44. Jesus and the Christians are mentioned in an account of how the Emperor Nero went after Christians in order to draw attention away from himself after Rome's fire of 64 AD:
But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished Christians, who were hated for their enormities. Christus, the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, but through the city of Rome also, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind
[source - Jesus Nero's Scapegoats: by Cornelius Tacitus, The Reliability of the Secular References to Jesus, by J. P. Holding, http://www.tektonics.org/tekton_01_01_01_TC.html on 03/19/2008]

And,

<<<"On the eve of Passover Jesus was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Anyone who can say anything in his favor let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favor, he was hanged on the eve of Passover. Ulla retorted: Do you suppose he was one for whom a defense could be made? Was he not a mesith (enticer), concerning whom Scripture says, "Neither shall thou spare nor shall thou conceal him?" With Jesus, however, it was different, for he was connected with the government. (Sanhedrin 43a)[source - Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a as provided by September 24, 2003 Steven Bayme, National Director, Contemporary Jewish Life Department , http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/997317/posts on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"[And first century slanders of Jesus (Yeshua) prove he existed] ""... Scholars have debated at length how Jesus came to have this name (i.e., ben Pandira) attached to his. Strauss thought it was from the Greek word pentheros, meaning 'son-in-law.' Klausner and Bruce accept the position that panthera is a corruption of the Greek parthenos meaning 'virgin.' Klausner says, 'The Jews constantly heard that the Christians (the majority of whom spoke Greek from the earliest times) called Jesus by the name "Son of the Virgin"... and so, in mockery, they called him Ben ha-Pantera, i.e., "son of the leopard."'... The theory most sensational but least accepted by serious scholars was dramatized by the discovery of a first century tombstone at Bingerbruck, Germany. The inscription read, 'Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera, an archer, native of Sidon, Phoenicia, who in 9 c.e. was transferred to service in Germany.'... This discovery fueled the fire of the theory that Jesus was the illegitimate son of Mary and the soldier, Panthera. Even Origen writes that his opponent, Celsus, in circa A.D. 178, said that he heard from a Jew that 'Miriam' had become pregnant by 'Pantheras,' a Roman soldier; was divorced by her husband, and bore Jesus in secret." [source - III.Ancient Secular Historians, I.Talmudic Sources, DOXA, http://www.doxa.ws/Jesus_pages/Talmud_JC.html on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"Celsus, a late second-century critic of Christianity, accused Jesus of being a bastard child and a sorcerer.[67] He is quoted as saying that Jesus was a "mere man".[68]
The Acts of Pilate is purportedly an official document from Pilate reporting events in Judea to the Emperor Tiberius (thus, it would have been among the commentaii principis). It was mentioned by Justin Martyr, in his First Apology (c. 150) to Antoninus Pius, Marcus Aurelius, and Lucius Verus, who said that his claims concerning Jesus' crucifixion, and some miracles, could be verified by referencing the official record, the "Acts of Pontius Pilate".[69] With the exception of Tertullian, no other writer is known to have mentioned the work, and Tertullian's reference says that Tiberius debated the details of Jesus' life before the Roman Senate, an event that is almost universally considered absurd.[70] There is a later apocryphal text, undoubtedly fanciful, by the same name, and though it is generally thought to have been inspired by Justin's reference (and thus to post-date his Apology), it is possible that Justin actually mentioned this text, though that would give the work an unusually early date and therefore is not a straightforward identification.[71]" [source - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"[Pliny the Younger (c. 62 - c.113 AD) was the Roman Governor of Bithynia (present-day northwestern Turkey). Around 111 or 112 AD, he wrote the following letter to Emperor Trajan of Rome asking for advice on how to deal with Christians. - quite a letter preserved from antiquity, and this is only one of ten .]
It is a rule, Sir, which I inviolably observe, to refer myself to you in all my doubts; for who is more capable of guiding my uncertainty or informing my ignorance? Having never been present at any trials of the Christians, I am unacquainted with the method and limits to be observed either in examining or punishing them. Whether any difference is to be allowed between the youngest and the adult; whether repentance admits to a pardon, or if a man has been once a Christian it avails him nothing to recant; whether the mere profession of Christianity, albeit without crimes, or only the crimes associated therewith are punishable -- in all these points I am greatly doubtful.

In the meanwhile, the method I have observed towards those who have denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were Christians; if they confessed it I repeated the question twice again, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed. For whatever the nature of their creed might be, I could at least feel not doubt that contumacy and inflexible obstinacy deserved chastisement. There were others also possessed with the same infatuation, but being citizens of Rome, I directed them to be carried thither.

These accusations spread (as is usually the case) from the mere fact of the matter being investigated and several forms of the mischief came to light. A placard was put up, without any signature, accusing a large number of persons by name. Those who denied they were, or had ever been, Christians, who repeated after me an invocation to the gods, and offered adoration, with wine and frankincense, to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for that purpose, together with those of the gods, and who finally cursed Christ -- none of which acts, it is into performing -- these I thought it proper to discharge. Others who were named by that informer at first confessed themselves Christians, and then denied it; true, they had been of that persuasion but they had quitted it, some three years, others many years, and a few as much as twenty-five years ago. They all worshipped your statue and the images of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They affirmed, however, the whole of their guilt, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to any wicked deeds, but never to commit any fraud, theft, or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it up; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food -- but food of an ordinary and innocent kind. Even this practice, however, they had abandoned after the publication of my edict, by which, according to your orders, I had forbidden political associations. I judged it so much the more necessary to extract the real truth, with the assistance of torture, from two female slaves, who were styled deaconesses: but I could discover nothing more than depraved and excessive superstition.

I therefore adjourned the proceedings, and betook myself at once to your counsel. For the matter seemed to me well worth referring to you, especially considering the numbers endangered. Persons of all ranks and ages, and of both sexes are, and will be, involved in the prosecution. For this contagious superstition is not confined to the cities only, but has spread through the villages and rural districts; it seems possible, however, to check and cure it." [source - http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/pliny-the-younger.htm on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"Pliny the Younger, the provincial governor of Pontus and Bithynia, wrote to Emperor Trajan c. 112 concerning how to deal with Christians, who refused to worship the emperor, and instead worshiped "Christus".
Those who denied that they were or had been Christians, when they invoked the gods in words dictated by me, offered prayer with incense and wine to your image, which I had ordered to be brought for this purpose together with statues of the gods, and moreover cursed Christ - none of which those who are really Christians, it is said, can be forced to do - these I thought should be discharged. Others named by the informer declared that they were Christians, but then denied it, asserting that they had been but had ceased to be, some three years before, others many years, some as much as twenty-five years. They all worshipped your image and the statues of the gods, and cursed Christ.

They asserted, however, that the sum and substance of their fault or error had been that they were accustomed to meet on a fixed day before dawn and sing responsively a hymn to Christ as to a god, and to bind themselves by oath, not to some crime, but not to commit fraud, theft, or adultery, not falsify their trust, nor to refuse to return a trust when called upon to do so. When this was over, it was their custom to depart and to assemble again to partake of food-but ordinary and innocent food. Even this, they affirmed, they had ceased to do after my edict by which, in accordance with your instructions, I had forbidden political associations." [source - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"[The ancient Roman historian Suetonius, he was court official under the Roman Emperor Hadrian,
made two interesting historical notes about the followers of Jesus Christ ] "Suetonius provides more insight into how and why "Chrestus" would cause such disturbances among the Jews in Rome when he tells of Nero's campaign of persecution against the Christians, launched in A.D. 64. (Scholars believe this was the persecution that claimed, among others, Peter and Paul - both believed to have died in Rome). Suetonius describes these "Christians" as a "class of men given to a new and mischevious superstition."
[source - Suetonius on Christians in Rome, Ancient Roman Historian Writes of Jesus' Followers, by Brian Tubbs, http://protestantism.suite101.com/blog.cfm/suetonius_on_christians_in_rome on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"There are passages relevant to Christianity in the works of four major non-Christian writers of the late 1st and early 2nd centuries - Josephus, Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny the Younger. However, these are generally references to early Christians rather than a historical Jesus. Of the four, Josephus' writings, which document John the Baptist, James the Just, and possibly also Jesus, are of the most interest to scholars dealing with the historicity of Jesus (see below). Tacitus, in his Annals written c. 115, mentions popular opinion about Christus, without historical details (see also: Tacitus on Jesus). There is an obscure reference to a Jewish leader called "Chrestus" in Suetonius. Pliny condemned Christians as easily-led fools." [source - From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"The Talmud Sanhedrin 43a, which dates to the earliest period of composition (Tannaitic period) contains the following:
On the eve of the Passover, Yeshu was hanged. Forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried: "He is going forth to be stoned because he has practiced sorcery and enticed Israel to apostasy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf." But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.[72] [source - From The Babylonian Talmud, translated I. Epstein (London: Soncio, 1935), vol. 3, Sanhedrin 43a, p. 281, Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<"Michael Grant stated (in 1977) that the view is derived from a lack of application of historical methods:
...if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus' existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned. ... To sum up, modern critical methods fail to support the Christ myth theory. It has 'again and again been answered and annihilated by first rank scholars.' In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." [source - M. Grant, Jesus: An Historian's Review, pp. 199-200 , as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<" In The Historical Figure of Jesus, E.P. Sanders used Alexander the Great as a paradigm-the available sources tell us much about Alexander's deeds, but nothing about his thoughts. "The sources for Jesus are better, however, than those that deal with Alexander" and "the superiority of evidence for Jesus is seen when we ask what he thought."[74] Thus, Sanders considers the quest for the Historical Jesus to be much closer to a search for historical details on Alexander than to those historical figures with adequate documentation.
Consequently, scholars like Sanders, Geza Vermes, John P. Meier, David Flusser, James H. Charlesworth, Raymond E. Brown, Paula Fredriksen and John Dominic Crossan argue that, although many readers are accustomed to thinking of Jesus solely as a theological figure whose existence is a matter only of religious debate, the four canonical Gospel accounts are based on source documents written within decades of Jesus' lifetime, and therefore provide a basis for the study of the "historical" Jesus. These historians also draw on other historical sources and archaeological evidence to reconstruct the life of Jesus in his historical and cultural context." [source - Sanders 1993:3 as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<" Lucian, a second century Romano-Syrian satirist, who wrote in Greek, wrote:
The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws.[66]" [source - Lucian, The Death of Peregrine, 11-13 in The Works of Lucian of Samosata, translated by H. W. Fowler (Oxford: Clarendon, 1949) vol. 4 as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<" Thallus, of whom very little is known, wrote a history from the Trojan War to, according to Eusebius, 109 AD. No work of Thallus survives. There is one reference to Thallus having written about events beyond 109 AD. Julius Africanus, writing c. 221, while writing about the crucifixion of Jesus, mentioned Thallus. Thus:
On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus, in his third book of History, calls (as appears to me without reason) an eclipse of the sun.[65]" [source - Julius Africanus, Extant Writings XVIII in Ante-Nicene Fathers, ed. A. Roberts and J. Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973) vol. VI, p. 130 as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

And,

<<<" Tacitus (c. 56-c. 117), writing c. 116, included in his Annals a mention of Christianity and "Christus", the Latinized Greek translation of the Hebrew word "Messiah". In describing Nero's persecution of Christians following the Great Fire of Rome c. 64, he wrote:
Nero fastened the guilt of starting the blaze and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius 14-37 at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular.[53]
R. E. Van Voorst noted the improbability that later Christians would have interpolated "such disparaging remarks about Christianity".[54] For this reason the authenticity of the passage is rarely doubted, but there is disagreement about what it proves. It has been controversially speculated that Tacitus may have used one of Pilate's reports to the emperor as the source for his statement that "Christus" had been crucified by Pilate.[55] Biblical scholar Bart D. Ehrman wrote that: "Tacitus's report confirms what we know from other sources, that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate, sometime during Tiberius's reign."[56] Others would say it tells us only what the Christians in the year 116 believed, and is not therefore an independent confirmation of the Gospel reports. For example, historian Richard Carrier writes "it is inconceivable that there were any records of Jesus for Tacitus to consult in Rome (for many reasons, not the least of which being that Rome's capitol had burned to the ground more than once in the interim), and even less conceivable that he would have dug through them even if they existed ... It would simply be too easy to just ask a Christian--or a colleague who had done so ... there can be no doubt that what Pliny discovered from Christians he had interrogated was passed on to Tacitus."[57]" [sources - ^ Tacitus, Annals 15.44 (Latin, English and also here) ^ Robert E. Van Voorst (2000). Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence. Wm. B. Eerdmans, p. 43. See also the criterion of embarrassment. ^ F.F. Bruce, Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament, (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974) p. 23 ^ Ehrman, p. [212 INSERT TITLE]. as provided by Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus on 03/19/2008]>>>.

CONCLUSION AND ADDITIONAL REFERENCES:

As can be readily seen, it is totally unreasonable to assert that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is not a genuine historic figure as do some unreasonable ones. And to reiterate what was said in the introduction,

<<<"Interestingly, the first type of records comes from what are known commonly as "hostile" sources-writers who mentioned Jesus in a negative light or derogatory fashion. Such penmen certainly were not predisposed to further the cause of Christ or otherwise to add credence to His existence. In fact, quite the opposite is true. They rejected His teachings and often reviled Him as well. Thus, one can appeal to them without the charge of built-in bias. " [source - Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation, The Historical Christ-Fact or Fiction? by Kyle Butt, M.A., sub-part HOSTILE TESTIMONY]>>>.

But for those wanting to do additional research and/or checking, here are some resources not previously mentioned:

REFERENCES

Anderson, J.N.D. (1969), Christianity: The Witness of History (London: Tyndale).

Anderson, Norman (1985), Jesus Christ: The Witness of History (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press), second edition.

Barker, Dan (1992), Losing Faith in Faith (Minneapolis, MN: Freedom From Religion Foundation).

Beare, Francis Wright (1962), The Earliest Records of Jesus (New York: Abingdon).

Blomberg, Craig L. (1987), The Historical Reliability of the Gospels (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press).

Bruce, F.F. (1953), The New Testament Documents-Are They Reliable? (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans), fourth edition.

Bruce, F.F. (1967), The New Testament Documents-Are They Reliable? (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans), fifth edition.

Chapman, Colin (1981), The Case for Christianity (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans).

Daniel-Rops, Henri, (1969), "Silence of Jesus' Contemporaries," The Sources for the Life of Christ, ed. Henri Daniel-Rops (New York: Hawthorn).

Durant, Will, ed. (1932), On the Meaning of Life (New York: Long and Smith).

Geisler, Norman L. and Ronald M. Brooks (1990), When Skeptics Ask (Wheaton, IL: Victor).

Guthrie, Donald (1990), New Testament Introduction (Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press).

Habermas, Gary R. (1996), The Historical Jesus (Joplin, MO: College Press).

Harvey, A.E. (1982), Jesus and the Constraints of History (Philadelphia, PA: Westminster).

Horne, Thomas H. (1841), An Introduction to the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker), 1970 reprint.

Jackson, Wayne (1991), "Josephus and the Bible [Part II]" Reason & Revelation, 11:29-32, August.

Josephus, Flavius (1957 reprint), The Life and Works of Flavius Josephus, trans. William Whitson (Philadelphia, PA: John Whitson).

Josephus, Flavius (1988 reprint), Josephus: The Essential Writings, trans. Paul L Maier (Grand Rapids, MI: Kregel).

Kähler, Martin (1896), The So-called Historical Jesus and the Historic, Biblical Christ, trans. Carl E. Braaten (Philadelphia, PA: Fortress), 1964 reprint.

Key, Howard Clark (1970), Jesus in History (New York: Harcourt, Brace and World).

Linton, Irwin H. (1943), A Lawyer Examines the Bible (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker), sixth edition.

Meier, John P. (1990), "Jesus in Josephus: A Modest Proposal." The Catholic Biblical Quarterly, 52:76-99.

Metzger, Bruce M. (1968), The Text of the New Testament (New York: Oxford University Press).

Monser, J.W. (1961), An Encyclopedia on the Evidences; or Masterpieces of Many Minds (Grand Rapids, MI: Baker).

Rajak, Tessa (1984), Josephus: The Historian and His Society (Philadelphia, PA: Fortress).

Sanders, E.P. (1993), The Historical Figure of Jesus (New York: Lane-Penguin).

Schweitzer, Albert. (1964), The Quest for the Historical Jesus (New York: Macmillan).

Suetonius (1957 reprint), The Twelve Caesars, trans. Robert Graves (London: Penguin).

Schaff, Philip & N.M. Roussel (1868), The Romance of M. Renan and the Christ of the Gospels (New York: Carlton & Lanahan).

Tacitus, Cornelius P. (1952 reprint), The Annals and the Histories, trans. Michael Grant (Chicago, IL: William Benton), Great Books of the Western World Series, vol. 15.

Thompson, Bert (1994), "Famous Enemies of Christ-Ancient and Modern," Reason & Revelation, 14:1-7, January.

Wells, H.G. (1931), Outline of History, Being a Plain History of Life and Mankind (Garden City, NY: Garden City Publishing).

Wilken, Robert L. (1990), "The Piety of the Persecutors," Christian History, 9:16.

Yamauchi, Edwin M. (1995), "Jesus Outside the New Testament: What is the Evidence?," Jesus Under Fire, ed. Michael J. Wilkins and J.P. Moreland (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).

[source - Apologetics Press :: Reason & Revelation, The Historical Christ-Fact or Fiction? by Kyle Butt, M.A., sub-part HOSTILE TESTIMONY]


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Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua):

Post  Admin on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:20 pm

Discourse on Moses Foretold the Coming of Jesus (Yeshua):

INTRODUCTION:

The coming of Jesus (Yeshua), the Messiah, was foretold by the Prophet Moses (Mosche). In fact, Moses (Mosche) prefigured Jesus (Yeshua) Christ. How so? For one the Prophet Moses was a mediator between God (YHWH) and the nation of Israel; whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) would later be made by God (YHWH), his Father, the only mediator between God (YHWH) and mankind per 1 Timothy 2:5, "For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, [himself] man, Christ Jesus," (American Standard Version; ASV). Interestingly even in death there was a parallel between the Prophet Moses and Jesus (Yeshua) in that is both cases God (YHWH) disposed of their bodies, but we will get into that in more detail later. But unlike the Prophet Moses who stumbled, and Jesus (Yeshua) did not. Now let's go into depth on the subject.


PREFIGURED JESUS (YESHUA) CHRIST:

When Jesus (Yeshua) was on earth, he made it clear that Moses (Mosche) had written about him. On one occasion he told his opposers, John 5:43-47, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, who receive glory one of another, and the glory that [cometh] from the only God ye seek not? 45 Think not that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, [even] Moses, on whom ye have set your hope. 46 For if ye believed Moses, ye would believe me; for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" (ASV). In fact, this was affirmed also when Jesus (Yeshua) was speaking to his disciples at Luke 24:25-27, "And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Behooved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." (ASV); and by the disciple Philip at John 1:45, "Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph. 46 And Nathanael said unto him, Can any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see. 47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art King of Israel. 50 Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee underneath the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye shall see the heaven opened, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (ASV).

Moses (Mosche) himself wrote many things concerning Jesus (Yeshua), for example at Deuteronomy 18:17-19, "And Jehovah said unto me, They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him." (ASV). Interestingly the Apostle Peter, when he quoted from this prophecy left no doubt that it was referring to Jesus (Yeshua) as shown at Acts 3:18-22, "But the things which God foreshowed by the mouth of all the prophets, that his Christ should suffer, he thus fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that so there may come seasons of refreshing from the presence of the Lord; 20 and that he may send the Christ who hath been appointed for you, [even] Jesus: 21 whom the heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, whereof God spake by the mouth of His holy prophets that have been from of old. 22 Moses indeed said, A prophet shall the Lord God raise up unto you from among your brethren, like unto me. To him shall ye hearken in all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you." (ASV).

Interestingly this fact that Jesus (Yeshua) was the prophet spoken of by the Prophet Moses(Mosche) was made vividly clear in the transfiguration scene that the the Apostles Peter, James, and John were permitted to see where Moses and Elijah were seen figuratively speaking with Jesus. This scene represented the Law Covenant, the theocratic government or arrangement of the congregation, the deliverance of the nation, and the coming of the Promised Land. This vision clearly showed that Jesus (Yeshua) would do greater works than Moses, and that he would also do work like that of Elijah, but in a more grand way. Thus it was clearly manifested that Jesus (Yeshua) was the Son of God (YHWH) and was indeed the 'Prophet greater than was Moses', but let's look at what the Bible shows about the transfiguration at Matthew 17:1-3, "And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into a high mountain apart: 2 and he was transfigured before them; and his face did shine as the sun, and his garments became white as the light. 3 And behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elijah talking with him." (ASV).

In fact, there was a significant pictorial correspondency between these two, Jesus (Yeshua) and Moses (Mosche). Both infants escaped a wholesale slaughter of male infants ordered by a ruler of their time.

Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 1:22 and 2:1-10, "And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive." And "And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. 2 And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months. 3 And when she could not longer hide him, she took for him an ark of bulrushes, and daubed it with slime and with pitch; and she put the child therein, and laid it in the flags by the river's brink. 4 And his sister stood afar off, to know what would be done to him. 5 And the daughter of Pharaoh came down to bathe at the river; and her maidens walked along by the river-side; and she saw the ark among the flags, and sent her handmaid to fetch it. 6 And she opened it, and saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children. 7 Then said his sister to Pharaoh's daughter, Shall I go and call thee a nurse of the Hebrew women, that she may nurse the child for thee? 8 And Pharaoh's daughter said to her, Go. And the maiden went and called the child's mother. 9 And Pharaoh's daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it. 10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses, and said, Because I drew him out of the water." (ASV).

Whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 2:13-18, "Now when they were departed, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I tell thee: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him. 14 And he arose and took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt; 15 and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt did I call my son. 16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the Wise-men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the male children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had exactly learned of the Wise-men. 17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, 18 A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children; And she would not be comforted, because they are not. " (ASV).

Both were at one time called out of Egypt with God's (YHWH's) 'firstborn', the nation of Israel. Jesus (Yeshua) was called out of Egype as God's (YHWH) firstborn son.

Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 4:22-23, "And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, my first-born: 23 and I have said unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me; and thou hast refused to let him go: behold, I will slay thy son, thy first-born." (ASV), And Hosea 11:1, "When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." (ASV)

Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 2:15 and 19-21, "and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt did I call my son." And "But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, 20 Arise and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead that sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel." (ASV)

Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) were exceptionally humble and meek.

Moses (Mosche) - Numbers 12:3, "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.

Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 11:28-30, "Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light" (ASV)

Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) fasted for 40 days in a wilderness location.

Moses (Mosche) - Exodus 34:28, "And he was there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments." (ASV)

Jesus (Yeshua) - Matthew 4:1-2, "Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he afterward hungered. " (ASV).

MOSES (MOSCHE) AND JESUS (YESHUA) AS MEDIATORS:

Moses (Mosche) was the mediator of the Law Covenant between God (YHWH) and the ancient nation of Israel for God (YHWH); whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) became the Mediator of the New Covenant between God (YHWH) and his nation of faithful followers, the 'spiritual Israel,' as shown at 1 Peter 2:9-12, "But ye are a elect race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for [God's] own possession, that ye may show forth the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 who in time past were no people, but now are the people of God: who had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 11 Beloved, I beseech you as sojourners and pilgrims, to abstain from fleshly lust, which war against the soul; 12 having your behavior seemly among the Gentiles; that, wherein they speak against you as evil-doers, they may by your good works, which they behold, glorify God in the day of visitation."; and at Galatians 6:16-19, " And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace [be] upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 17 Henceforth, let no man trouble me; for I bear branded on my body the marks of Jesus. 18 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brethren. Amen" (ASV); and at Exodus 19:3-9, "And Moses went up unto God, and Jehovah called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be mine own possession from among all peoples: for all the earth is mine: 6 and ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. 7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and set before them all these words which Jehovah commanded him. 8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that Jehovah hath spoken we will do. And Moses reported the words of the people unto Jehovah." (ASV); and at Luke 22:19-20, "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, [even] that which is poured out for you" (ASV); and at Hebrews 86-7, "But now hath he obtained a ministry the more excellent, by so much as he is also the mediator of a better covenant, which hath been enacted upon better promises. 7 For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then would no place have been sought for a second" (ASV).

BOTH WERE JUDGES AND LAWGIVERS.

Both Moses (Mosche) and Jesus (Yeshua) Christ served as lawgivers, leaders and judges of the congregation. This was shown with respect Moses (Mosche) as a judge at Exodus 18:13, "And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses sat to judge the people: and the people stood about Moses from the morning unto the evening." (ASV); and as a leader at Exodus 32:34, "And now go, lead the people unto [the place] of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine angel shall go before thee; nevertheless in the day when I visit, I will visit their sin upon them." (ASV); and Daniel 9:25, "Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times." (ASV).

Whereas, Jesus (Yeshua) was shown to be the appointed leader at Matthew 23:8-12, "But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your teacher, and all ye are brethren. 9 And call no man your father on the earth: for one is your Father, [even] he who is in heaven. 10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your master, [even] the Christ. 11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled; and whosoever shall humble himself shall be exalted." (ASV); and as the appointed judge at John 5:21-30, "For as the Father raiseth the dead and giveth them life, even so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 22 For neither doth the Father judge any man, but he hath given all judgment unto the Son; 23 that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father that sent him. 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, even so gave he to the Son also to have life in himself: 27 and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is a son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment. 30 I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me." (ASV); and that he would be the leader of a new congregation is shown at John 1334-35,: "A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; even as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." (ASV); and affirmed at John 15:14-17, "Ye are my friends, if ye do the things which I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I heard from my Father, I have made known unto you. 16 Ye did not choose me, but I chose you, and appointed you, that ye should go and bear fruit, and [that] your fruit should abide: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. 17 These things I command you, that ye may love one another." (ASV).

Whereas, Moses (Mosche) was given the stewardship over the ancient nation of Israel or God's (YHWH's) congregation at that time, Jesus (Yeshua) is given the stewardship over spiritual Israel, the congregation of God (YHWH) today per Numbers 12:7 in the case of Moses (Mosche), "My servant Moses is not so; he is faithful in all my house:". With respect Jesus (Yeshua) Hebrews 3:1-6 says, "Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, [even] Jesus; 2 who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also was Moses in all his house. 3 For he hath been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by so much as he that built the house hath more honor than the house. 4 For every house is builded by some one; but he that built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all his house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were afterward to be spoken; 6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end." (ASV).

MEDIATOR OF A NEW COVENANT:

Whereas Moses (Mosche) was a mediator and judge under the old Law Covenant, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ is the mediator of the new covenant as has been shown above. He is the greater prophet spoken of by Moses (Mosche) who prefigured him. Some try and falsely claim that Jesus (Yeshua) Christ was just a prophet and fail to recognize he was much more since God (YHWH), his Father, has appointed him as the mediator over the New Covenant as previously shown. In fact 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 shows that God (YHWH) has given him all authority over everything but himself who was exempted at 1 Corinthians 15:27, let's look at these scriptures, " For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ's, at his coming. 24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. 27 For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. 28 And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all." (ASV). Clearly this scripture leaves no doubt with respect to his authority and shows clearly he is the prophet greater than Moses (Mosche) that Moses (Mosche) said was coming.

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Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth."Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today!

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