Discourse on What is Prophecy:

**Admin** Sat Dec 01, 2012 7:31 pm

Discourse on What is Prophecy:

Many have stated this or that was prophesied by this or that person or group without understanding the difference between prophecy, and its difference from a group or individual who acts to guide a Christian group under the influence of the Holy Spirit, God's (YHWH's) active force or spirit. Sometimes these groups or individuals taking the lead are spoken of as "prophets" in a symbolic sense, but NOT in the real sense of being a true prophet and/or claiming to be such. Now let's examine what true prophecy is.

True prophecy is an inspired message; a revelation of the divine will and purpose, for example the revelation given to the Apostle John that he wrote-up as the Book of Revelations or Apocalypse. Prophecy may be a prediction of something to come, inspired moral teaching, or an expression of a divine command or judgment. To be real prophecy and not just a prediction or indication, it must come from a deity through DIRECT revelation to an individual as was always the case in the Bible, the word of God (YHWH).

The International Encyclopedia of the Bible describes true prophecy as, " The Seer and Speaker of God:
According to the uniform teaching of the Bible the prophet is a speaker of or for God. His words are not the production of his own spirit, but come from a higher source. For he is at the same time, also, a seer, who sees things that do not lie in the domain of natural sight, or who hears things which human ears do not ordinarily receive; compare 1 Samuel 9:9, where nabhi', "speaker," and ro'eh, "seer," are used as synonymous terms. Jeremiah 23:16 and Ezekiel 13:2 f are particularly instructive in this regard. In these passages a sharp distinction is made between those persons who only claim to be prophets but who prophesy "out of their own heart," and the true prophets who declare the word which the Lord has spoken to them. In the latter case the contents of the prophecy have not originated in their own reflection or calculation; and just as little is this prophecy the product of their own feelings, fears or hopes, but, as something extraneous to man and independent of him, it has with a divine certainty entered the soul of the prophet. The prophet has seen that which he prophesies, although he need not have seen it in the form of a real vision. He can also "see" words with his inner eyes (Isaiah 2:1, and often). It is only another expression for this when it is frequently said that God has spoken to the prophet. In this case too it is not necessary that there must have been a voice which he could hear phonetically through his natural ear. The main thing is that he must have been able sharply to distinguish the contents of this voice from his own heart, i.e. from his personal consciousness. Only in this way is he capable of speaking to the people in the name of God and able to publish his word as that of Yahweh. In this case he is the speaker of Yahweh (nabhi'), or the mouth of the Lord (compare Ezekiel 7:1 with 4:16). Under these conditions he then regards it as absolute compulsion to speak, just as a person must be filled with fear when he hears a lion roar nearby (Amos 3: Cool

. The words burn in his soul until he utters them (Jeremiah 20:7,9)." [source = International Encyclopedia of the Bible]

The dictionary defines prophecy in the Biblical sense as, " An inspired utterance of a prophet, viewed as a revelation of divine will. b. A prediction of the future, made under divine inspiration. c. Such an inspired message or prediction transmitted orally or in writing." [ETYMOLOGY: Middle English prophecie, from Old French, from Latin prophta, from Greek prophteia,] [source = The American Heritage(r) Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright (c) 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by the Houghton Mifflin Company.]. As noted, real prophecy is by a direct revelation from a deity either by direct communication or revelation under divine inspiration; is NOT to be confused with what is sometimes spoken of as 'prophecy' in the symbolic or figurative sense such as a small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ who receive general direction in their activity from the Holy Spirit, but do NOT claim divine revelation or direct communication with a deity.

Today some groups claim to have a prophet, oracle, and/or a leader who receives divine revelations under certain circumstances directly from a deity or by revelation; and these are prophets in the literal sense and/or claim to be. Good examples of those who claim to be prophets in the literal sense are/were Joseph Smith who claimed direct revelations from a deity as you will find recorded in the back of most versions of the Book of Mormon, and the Catholic Church who claims their pope receives revelations, ex Cathedra, or from the chair of Peter.

There are other things such as mere predictions that some mistakenly take as prophecy, but fail to look at the caveats given with the predictions, for example, the head of the state lottery saying you can be a winner if you hold the winning ticket. These mistaken individuals just hear/read you can be a winner, but fail to pay heed to the caveat, if you hold the winning ticket. There are for example groups whose prophet(S) have declared emphatically the culmination of the end times on a very specific date without caveats; they are true prophets, how-be-it all of this type including the group several years ago that hid out in caves proved to be false prophets. On the other hand, many groups have made predictions, not prophecy, that it is possible that the culmination of the end times could possibly happen in a certain period of time providing certain caveats were meant. For example, the Watchtower Society has said such an event could possibly happen during certain time periods and that we are living in the time of the end, which is true, but ONLY IF VERY SPECIFIC CAVEATS WERE MENT. This is NOT prophecy, but indications or predictions that DEPEND on certain necessary caveats or criteria having been meant.

To sum it all up, believe NOT any one who claims to be a true prophet of any flavor, i.e., prophet, pope, or oracle, if they give you a specific end date for the culmination of the end times instead of a possible indicated or predicted time period with caveats of necessary things that must occur first. These who give a specific date are always false prophets since even God's (YHWH's) own Son, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ did not know the date as he himself testified to at Matthew 24:36, " But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."(Authorized King James Bible; AV).

Now to know the truth, go to:

1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/

5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/

7) https://religioustruths.forumotion.com/

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth."Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today!

**Admin** Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:08 am

THE BIBLE DECLARED THE WORLD ROUND WHEREAS MOST ANCIENT PEOPLE THOUGHT IT WAS FLAT

INTRODUCTION

In most schools students are taught that Columbus was the original navigator who maintained the world was a sphere and not flat. He convinced the Spanish Court that the world was a sphere and he could sail to East Indies by sailing west. He was given funding and ‘discovered’ the new world, the Americas while thinking it to be the East Indies.

Before the time of Columbus, most thought the world to be flat and that if you sailed too far, you would fall of it. However, the Bible clearly showed in Isaiah 40:22 that it was circular, a sphere, as follows, “It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in;” [American Standard Version; ASV]

MANY THOUGHTS ON THIS SCRIPTURE

Opinions with respect this scripture are many, but clearly it shows the earth is NOT flat.

Let’s look at what many credible sources have said on the subject.

* One source said, “Remember this was wrote about 2,700 years ago by Isaiah 40: 21-22 {This is exactly what it says} 21.)Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you From the beginning? Have you not understood From the foundations of the Earth? 22.)It is He who sits above the circle Of the Earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the Heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Yes, it says "It is He who sits above the circle of the Earth."............................................................................................................................................................................................ If you look the bible has all truths of knowledge and revelations....This was wrote way before any great minds came along to say "Yes, the Earth is Round."...DUH THE BIBLE TOLD YOU THIS MANY YEARS AGO... ALSO..READ THE BOOK OF JOB..HE TELLS US THAT THE EARTH ISN'T SUPPORTED MY ANYTHING..IT IS HUNG UPON NOTHING...AND ANCIENT MAN THOUGHT IT WAS A GIANT TURTLE THAT SUPPORTED A FLAT EARTH...AND WHO SAYS THE BIBLE ISN'T CORRECT... [source - http://www.unsolvedmysteries.com/usm46796.html]

* Another said, “”Before the time of Columbus, many scientists taught that the earth was flat. However, the Bible contained the truth more than 2,100 years before Columbus. Isaiah the prophet wrote the word of God:
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, . . . Isaiah 40:22. (KJV) (See also Proverbs 8:27.)

Did you notice the expression "circle of the earth?" The original Hebrew word is (chug), which means circle and sphere. This Hebrew word contains the scientific truth that the earth is round and is a sphere. Obviously, Isaiah did not.” [source - http://www.oldpaths.com/Archive/Lockwood/Germaine/Charles/1930/Cosmos/ch09.html]

* Yet another said, “You need to get a better grasp of the facts with respect Isaiah 40:22, and not be speculating on that which you know not. Here are what some of the renown Bible scholars have said. The ancient Hebrew word here can mean either a circle or a sphere, but either are quite different from a flat plane.

* It is he--rather, connected with last verse, "Have ye not known?"--have ye not understood Him that sitteth . . . ? (Isaiah 40:26) [MAURER].
circle--applicable to the globular form of the earth, above which, and the vault of sky around it, He sits. For "upon" translate "above."
as grasshoppers--or locusts in His sight (Numbers 13:33), as He looks down from on high (Psalms 33:13,14, 113:4-6).

curtain--referring to the awning which the Orientals draw over the open court in the center of their houses as a shelter in rain or hot weather. [source - Fausset, A. R., A.M. "Commentary on Isaiah 40". "Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible". 1871.]

* And John Wesley (the founder of the Methodist Church said on the subject as follows, “Sitteth - Far above this round earth, even in the highest heavens; from whence he looketh down upon the earth, where men appear to him like grasshoppers. As here we have the circle of the earth, so elsewhere we read of the circle of heaven, Job 22:14, and of the circle of the deep, or sea, Proverbs 8:27, because the form of the heaven, and earth and sea is circular. Spreadeth - For the benefit of the earth and of mankind, that all parts might partake of its comfortable influences. [ source - Wesley, John. "Commentary on Isaiah 40". "John Wesley's Explanatory Notes on the Whole Bible". 1754].

* And Dr. M. G. Eaton, a well known Bible scholar said, “Stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain" (Isaiah 40:22), is an expression used with reference to the veil or awning which Orientals spread for a screen over their courts in summer. According to the prophet, the heavens are spread over our heads as such an awning. Similar expressions are found in Ps 104:2l; Compare Isaiah 44:24; Job 9:8.” [source - M.G. Easton M.A., D.D., Illustrated Bible Dictionary, Third Edition, published by Thomas Nelson, 1897]

* And an Archive said, “Round Earth
Before the time of Columbus, many scientists taught that the earth was flat. However, the Bible contained the truth more than 2,100 years before Columbus. Isaiah the prophet wrote the word of God: It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, . . . Isaiah 40:22. (KJV) (See also Proverbs 8:27.)

Did you notice the expression "circle of the earth?" The original Hebrew word is (chug), which means circle and sphere.5 This Hebrew word contains the scientific truth that the earth is round and is a sphere. Obviously, Isaiah did not.” [source - www.oldpaths.com/Archive/.../ch09.html]

‘CHUG’ THE ANCIENT HEBREW WORD USED IN ANCIENT TEXT

* Meaning of the word from Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance #2329.
circle, circuit, compass
From chuwg; a circle -- circle, circuit, compass.
see HEBREW chuwg

AND,

* Luke 17 is proof that the Bible is scientifically correct. In Luke 17 it says at the same instant "like the lightning, which flashes" people are "taken" concurrently at "night" (verse 34) and "day" (verses 30-31) proving ~2000 years ago that the Bible correctly says the earth is a globe with both dark and light sides. Isaiah 40:22 is simply accurately describing what the earth looks like from a distance. However, Wilsonâ€s OT Word Studies translates the Hebrew word "chuwg" as a "circle, sphere," (n.d., p. 77).

AND,

* Random House Dictionary gives the following definition:
cirÂ•cle: "a sphere or orb: the circle of the earth."

There is absolutely no evidence that Isaiah 40:22 should be interpreted as a flat disk. In addition, a tent in biblical times is not in the shape of a dome. In fact, when Isaiah 40:22 says God "stretches out the heavens" it more likely predicts what science now refers to as the expansion of the universe after the Big Bang.

AND,

* Job 26:10 says the earth's cross section is round multidimensionally on 70% of the surface of the earth where water is found implying a spherical earth: "He has inscribed a circle on the surface of the waters," (NAS)

In Job 38:2 immediately following Job 37:18 where Elihu falsely talked about the "vault of the skies...hard as a mirror of cast metal", God correct him by saying "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge?" [source - retrieved from http://www.bibleintegrity.org/ on 12/01/2013]

AND,

* Chuwg
The KJV Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon
Strong's Number: 02329

Original Word
Word Origin
gwx
from (02328)
Transliterated Word
TDNT Entry
Chuwg
TWOT - 615a
Phonetic Spelling
Parts of Speech
khoog
Noun Masculine

Definition
1. circle, circuit, compass
2. (BDB) vault (of the heavens)

King James Word Usage - Total: 3
circle 1, circuit 1, compass 1

KJV Verse Count
Job
1
Proverbs
1
Isaiah
1

Total
3

AND,

* The Hebrew lexicon is Brown, Driver, Briggs, Gesenius Lexicon; this is keyed to the "Theological Word Book of the Old Testament." These files are considered public domain. [source - retrieved from http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/hebrew/kjv/chuwg-2.html on 12/01/2013]

AND,

* William Wilson gives the meaning for the Hebrew ‘chuwg’ as circle, sphere, the arch or vault of the heavens, the circle of the earth. [source – William Wilson, New Wilson’s Old Testament Word Studies, pub. Grand Rapids, Fleming H. Kregel 1987 ]

THE BIBLE’S HARMONY WITH SCIENTIFIC FACTS

The Bible, at Job 26:7, speaks of God as “hanging the earth upon nothing.” Science says that the earth remains in its orbit in space primarily because of the interaction of gravity and centrifugal force. These forces, of course, are invisible. Therefore the earth, like other heavenly bodies, is suspended in space as if hanging on nothing. Speaking from Jehovah’s viewpoint, the prophet Isaiah wrote under inspiration: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers.” (Isa 40:22) The Bible says: “He [God] has described a circle upon the face of the waters.” (Job 26:10) The waters are limited by his decree to their proper place. They do not come up and inundate the land; neither do they fly off into space. (Job 38:8-11) From the viewpoint of Jehovah, the earth’s face, or the surface of the waters, would, of course, have a circular form, just as the edge of the moon presents a circular appearance to us. Before land surfaces appeared, the surface of the entire globe was one circular (spherical) mass of surging waters.—Ge 1:2.

Bible writers often speak from the standpoint of the observer on the earth, or from his particular position geographically, as we often naturally do today. For example, the Bible mentions “the sunrising.” (Nu 2:3; 34:15) Some have seized upon this as an opportunity to discredit the Bible as scientifically inaccurate, claiming that the Hebrews viewed earth as the center of things, with the sun revolving around it. But the Bible writers nowhere expressed such a belief. These same critics overlook the fact that they themselves use the identical expression and that it is in all of their almanacs. It is common to hear someone say, ‘it is sunrise,’ or ‘the sun has set,’ or ‘the sun traveled across the sky.’ The Bible also speaks of “the extremity of the earth” (Ps 46:9), “the ends of the earth” (Ps 22:27), “the four extremities of the earth” (Isa 11:12), “the four corners of the earth,” and “the four winds of the earth” (Re 7:1). These expressions cannot be taken to prove that the Hebrews understood the earth to be square. The number four is often used to denote that which is fully rounded out, as it were, just as we have four directions and sometimes employ the expressions “to the ends of the earth,” “to the four corners of the earth,” in the sense of embracing all the earth.—Compare Eze 1:15-17; Lu 13:29. [source – Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. I]

The Bible includes a number of references regarding the geophysical structure of the earth which revealed an understanding which was far ahead of common awareness. To truly appreciate the relevance of these statements, one must understand the state of existing knowledge about the earth at the time these words were written.

Although data concerning historical scientific knowledge is rare, it suggests that almost nothing was known about the earth's oceans, atmosphere, or the structure of the earth's shape and composition. The nations surrounding Israel believed that the earth was flat, resting on the back of elephants or turtles. There was no knowledge of lighter-than-air gases. Rain was said to be sent from the gods, lightning and thunder represented the anger of the gods. Even volcanic activity was not connected to any physical property of the earth.
In sharp contrast, the biblical accounts refer to geophysical facts in clear and precise detail thousands of years before their confirmation by science. While God is sometimes seen to manifest His anger through physical means such as earthquakes--with a specific purpose in mind, the Bible makes it clear that earthquakes are not in themselves a symbol of His anger. This is a significant difference from every other religious belief of those times.

The course of trade winds
"The wind blows to the south and every other religious belief of those times.

The course of trade winds
"The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it turneth about continually in its course, and the wind returneth again to its circuits." (Ecclesiastes 1:6) [ASV]

This was a remarkable statement given the earth's primitive knowledge of atmospheric conditions. In Solomon's time (Ecclesiastes was written around 935BC) there were no scientific revelations about the trade winds that move in a regular, predictable pattern around the earth. Sailors finally began mapping these winds during the age of exploration about 2000 years after this was written.

Ocean currents revealed
"The birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, Whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.." (Psalm 8: [ASV]

The Bible infers a knowledge of ocean currents at a time when almost nothing was known about the ocean. It was not until 1845 that Matthew Fontaine Maury, inspired by this verse, began discovering and mapping the existence of ocean currents. Even today oceanography is hailed as the "last great frontier" of scientific study because so little is known about our oceans.

Some people will dismiss this passage as an accidental reference, merely transposing a land-based concept (paths) to the surface of the water. Perhaps. But a closer look suggests that this verse distinctly refers to paths (currents) within the depths of the ocean, not upon its surface, as most fish do not "last great frontier" of scientific study because so little is known about our oceans.
Some people will dismiss this passage as an accidental reference, merely transposing a land-based concept (paths) to the surface of the water. Perhaps. But a closer look suggests that this verse distinctly refers to paths (currents) within the depths of the ocean, not upon its surface, as most fish do not swim on the surface.

The existence of hydrothermal springs
" Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? Or hast thou walked in the recesses of the deep?” (Job 8:16) [ASV]

God revealed the existence of freshwater springs under the ocean floor about 4000 years ago. Only in the last 20 years have scientists discovered that huge springs of heated water pour out of the ocean floor in numerous places. In 1965 scientists first theorized that such vents could exist. In the late 1970's, oceanographers with Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute finally saw and photographed one from the deep water submersible Alvin. Until then it was impossible to travel to these depths because of the intense pressures encountered. Since then many more vents have been found. These are usually referred to as "hydrothermal vents" which are composed of steam and minerals flowing at high pressure into the sea as a result of cracks in the earth's crust. To anyone without oceanographic knowledge they look exactly like "springs of the sea." How did Job know about these phenomena located at such crushing depths?

Polar ice caps revealed he spreads out the clouds, how he thunders from his pavilion?"

“For he draweth up the drops of water, Which distil in rain from his vapor,
28 Which the skies pour down And drop upon man abundantly. 29 Yea, can any understand the spreadings of the clouds, The thunderings of his pavilion? (Job 36:27-29) [ASV]

“…that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth (Jehovah is his name);” (Amos 5: [ASV]

This reference to evaporation is startling in its clarity and detail, and centuries ahead of its time. God revealed the existence of a hydrological cycle--water evaporating from the sea into the form of clouds and being dropped onto land as rain--about 3500 years before these concepts became known to scientific man. In fact, even after people understood the hydrological cycle, they believed that rain, being fresh water, came from rivers and lakes. The discovery that rain comes mostly from seawater as described in the Bible is fairly recent. In the 1600's it was finally realized that water could evaporate as a gaseous substance. In 1676, Pierre Perrault and Edme Marriotte made a scientific breakthrough by describing the hydrologic cycle in detail. Yet the Bible described the process thousands of years earlier. [source – adapted from http://www.pytlik.com/observe/deliverus/signature-02.html]

CONCLUSION

The Bible revealed knowledge of the earth many centuries before scientist became aware of it. Why? Because it was written under divine guidance by Almighty God (YHWH) who created all that now exist.

For example, Isaiah 40:22 was written about 732 B.C., long before scientist and/or Columbus had come to realize that the earth was a sphere, and before astronauts could view its edges as a circle from their point-of-view above it.

Now to know the truth, go to:

1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/

5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/

7) https://religioustruths.forumotion.com/

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to, http://religious-truths.forums.com/default/digital-book-on-18-part-follow-christ-bible-study-3?replies=6#post-1421

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to http://www.jw.org!

**Admin** Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:09 am

THE REAL MEANING OF THE NILE DRYING UP

Many take this as a literal prophecy, but I do not believe it is. I believe it is intended to symbolize a figure of the Nile’s drying up to represent the disaster due to come upon Egypt as a result of God’s judgment against the nation. The Nile’s failure would not only cripple agriculture and the raising of stock but also damage the fishing industry and the production of linen.—Isa 19:1, 5-10; Eze 29:9, 10; Zec 10:11. In other words it could by symbolic or literal, we will have to wait and see what transpires in the future as I do NOT like to speculate.

One writer on the subject said the following, “The Damming of the Life giving waters of Ethiopia and the rest of the Horn of Africa. This process is menacing the existence of the inhabitants of the region by drying the sources and lakes like Turkana, Rivers- Omo, Tekesze,Nile, Shebele, Awash...menacing countries like Egypt. The main reason advertised for damming is for production of Electricity and exporting energy. The underling reason is to the irrigation for the great land grabbing for cash crop exportation for finical speculators.” [source - retrieved from http://dams-ethiopianism.blogspot.com/2013/06/prophecy-alert-ethiopia-takes-nile-from.html on 11/29/2013]

This could happen or it could be a symbol of hard times as I have previously stated, but only the future will tell. Now the scriptures dealing with this subject are as follows:

Ezekiel 29:9, “Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring a sword upon thee, and cut off man and beast out of thee.
9 And the land of Egypt shall be desolate and waste; and they shall know that I am the LORD: because he hath said, The river is mine, and I have made it.
10 Behold, therefore I am against thee, and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia.” (Authorized King James Bible; AV)

Isaiah 19:5 – 10, “And the waters shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and dried up.
6 And they shall turn the rivers far away; and the brooks of defence shall be emptied and dried up: the reeds and flags shall wither.
7 The paper reeds by the brooks, by the mouth of the brooks, and every thing sown by the brooks, shall wither, be driven away, and be no more.
8 The fishers also shall mourn, and all they that cast angle into the brooks shall lament, and they that spread nets upon the waters shall languish.
9 Moreover they that work in fine flax, and they that weave networks, shall be confounded.
10 And they shall be broken in the purposes thereof, all that make sluices and ponds for fish.” [AV]

Zechariah 10:11, “And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.” [AV]

Now to know the truth, go to:

1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/

5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/

7) https://religioustruths.forumotion.com/

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to, http://religious-truths.forums.com/default/digital-book-on-18-part-follow-christ-bible-study-3?replies=6#post-1421

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to http://www.jw.org!

**Admin** Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:10 am

[font=Arial Black][THE PROPHECY AT ISAIAH 17:1 – 3 ON DAMASCUS

INTRODUCTION

The scriptural prophecy from the New world Translation (revised) of Isaiah 17:1 -3.:

A pronouncement against Damascus: “Look! Damascus will cease to be a city,
And it will become a heap of ruins. The cities of A•ro?er+ will be abandoned;
They will become places for flocks to lie down With no one to make them afraid. Fortified cities will disappear from E?phra•im,+And the kingdom from Damascus; And those remaining of Syria Will be like the glory of the Israelites,” declares Jehovah of armies.

The three possibilities:

One, This prophecy had its fulfillment in ancient times.

Two, This prophecy is yet to be fulfilled.

Third, This prophecy has a minor and a major fulfillment, i.e., a minor fulfillment in ancient times and a major fulfillment yet to be fulfilled.

As one would anticipate, there is no little difference with respect to its fulfillment and many different opinions on the matter.

We will now explore what the city of Damascus is and in-depth thoughts on the fulfillment of the prophecy at Isaiah 17:1 – 3.

BACKGROUND - DAMASCUS, A VERY OLD CITY

Damascus, commonly known in Syria as ash-Sham and nicknamed as the City of Jasmine is the capital and the second largest city of Syria afterAleppo. It borders Quneitra, Daraa and As-Suwayda to the south, Jordan to the east, Homs to the north, and Lebanon to the west. It is also the capital city of one of the country's 14 governorates. In addition to being one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world, Damascus is a major cultural and religious center of the Levant. The city has an estimated population of 1,711,000 (2009 est.).[1]
Located in southwestern Syria, Damascus is the center of a large metropolitan area of 2.6 million people (2004).[3]Geographically embedded on the eastern foothills of the Anti-Lebanon mountain range 80 kilometres (50 mi) inland from the eastern shore of the Mediterranean on a plateau 680 metres (2,230 ft) above sea-level, Damascus experiences a semi-arid climate due to the rain shadow effect. The Barada River flows through Damascus.
First settled in the second millennium BC, it was chosen as the capital of the Umayyad Caliphate from 661 to 750. After the victory of the Abbasid dynasty, the seat of Islamic power was moved to Baghdad. Damascus saw a political decline throughout the Abbasid era, only to regain significant importance in the Ayyubid and Mamluk periods. During Ottoman rule, the city decayed completely while maintaining a certain cultural prestige. Today, it is the seat of the central government and all of the government ministries.
The name of Damascus first appeared in the geographical list of Thutmose III as T-m-?-q in the 15th century BC.[4] Theetymology of the ancient name "T-m-?-q" is uncertain, but it is suspected to be pre-Semitic. It is attested as Dimašqa inAkkadian, T-ms-?w in Egyptian, in Biblical Hebrew. The Akkadian spelling is found in the Amarna letters, from the 14th century BC. Later Aramaic spellings of the name often include an intrusive resh (letter r), perhaps influenced by the root dr, meaning "dwelling". Thus, the Qumranic Darme?eq(?????), and Darmsûq in Syriac.[5][6] The English and Latin name of the city is "Damascus" which was imported from Greek: which originated in Aramaic: ? "a well-watered place".[7][8] In Arabic, the city is called Dimashqu sh-Sh?m, although this is often shortened to either Dimashq or ash-Sh?m by the citizens of Damascus, of Syria and other Arab neighbors. Ash-Sh?m is an Arabic term for "Levant" and for "Syria"; the latter, and particularly the historical region of Syria, is called Bil?du sh-Sh?m , "land of the Levant").

Early settlement
Carbon-14 dating at Tell Ramad, on the outskirts of Damascus, suggests that the site may have been occupied since the second half of the seventh millennium BC, possibly around 6300 BC.[9] However, evidence of settlement in the wider Barada basin dating back to 9000 BC exists, although no large-scale settlement was present within Damascus walls until the second millennium BC.[10]
Damascus was part of the ancient province of Amurru in the Hyksos Kingdom, from 1720 to 1570 BC.[11] Some of the earliestEgyptian records are from the 1350 BC Amarna letters, when Damascus-(called Dimasqu) was ruled by king Biryawaza. The Damascus region, as well as the rest of Syria, became a battleground circa 1260 BC, between the Hittites from the north and theEgyptians from the south,[12] ending with a signed treaty between Hattusili and Ramesses II where the former handed over control of the Damascus area to Ramesses II in 1259 BC.[12] The arrival of the Sea Peoples, around 1200 BC, marked the end of the Bronze Age in the region and brought about new development of warfare.[13] Damascus was only the peripheral part of this picture which mostly affected the larger population centers of ancient Syria. However, these events had contributed to the development of Damascus as a new influential center that emerged with the transition from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age.[13]
Damascus is mentioned in Genesis 14:15 as existing at the time of the War of the Kings.[14] According to the 1st-century Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in his twenty-one volume Antiquities of the Jews, Damascus (along with Trachonitis), was founded by Uz, the son of Aram. Elsewhere, he stated:
Nicolaus of Damascus, in the fourth book of his History, says thus: "Abraham reigned at Damascus, being a foreigner, who came with an army out of the land above Babylon, called the land of the Chaldeans: but, after a long time, he got him up, and removed from that country also, with his people, and went into the land then called the land of Canaan, but now the land of Judea, and this when his posterity were become a multitude; as to which posterity of his, we relate their history in another work. Now the name of Abraham is even still famous in the country of Damascus; and there is shown a village named from him, The Habitation of Abraham.

Aram-Damascus[edit]
Damascus is not documented as an important city until the arrival of The Aramaeans, Semitic people from Mesopotamia, in the 11th century BC. By the start of the first millennium BC, several Aramaic kingdoms were formed, as Aramaeans abandoned their nomadic lifestyle and formed federated tribal states. One of these kingdoms was Aram-Damascus, centered on its capital Damascus.[15] The Aramaeans who entered the city without battle, adopted the name "Dimashqu" for their new home. Noticing the agricultural potential of the still-undeveloped and sparsely populated area,[16] they established the water distribution system of Damascus by constructing canals and tunnels which maximized the efficiency of the river Barada. The same network was later improved by the Romans and the Umayyads, and still forms the basis of the water system of the old part of the city today.[17] The Aramaeans initially turned Damascus into an outpost of a loose federation of Aramaean tribes, known as Aram-Zobah, based in the Beqaa Valley.[16]
The city would gain preeminence in southern Syria when Ezron, the claimant to Aram-Zobah's throne who was denied kingship of the federation, fled Beqaa and captured Damascus by force in 965 BC. Ezron overthrew the city's tribal governor and founded the independent entity of Aram-Damascus. As this new state expanded south, it prevented the Kingdom of Israel from spreading north and the two kingdoms soon clashed as they both sought to dominate trading hegemony in the east.[16] Under Ezron's grandson, Ben-Hadad I (880–841 BC), and his successor Hazael, Damascus annexed Bashan(modern-day Hauran region), and went on the offensive with Israel. This conflict continued until the early 8th century BC when Ben-Hadad II was captured by Israel after unsuccessfully besieging Samaria. As a result, he granted Israel trading rights in Damascus.[18]
Another possible reason for the treaty between Aram-Damascus and Israel was the common threat of the Neo-Assyrian Empire which was attempting to expand into the Mediterranean coast. In 853 BC, King Hadadezer of Damascus led a Levantine coalition, that included forces from the northern Aram-Hamath kingdom and troops supplied by King Ahab of Israel, in the Battle of Qarqar against the Neo-Assyrian army. Aram-Damascus came out victorious, temporarily preventing the Assyrians from encroaching into Syria. However, after Hadadzezer was killed by his successor, Hazael II, the Levantine alliance collapsed. Aram-Damascus attempted to invade Israel, but was interrupted by the renewed Assyrian invasion. Hazael ordered a retreat to the walled part of Damascus while the Assyrians plundered the remainder of the kingdom. Unable to enter the city, they declared their supremacy in the Hauran and Beqa'a valleys.[18]
By the 8th century BC, Damascus was practically engulfed by the Assyrians and entered a dark age. Nonetheless, it remained the economic and cultural center of the Near East as well as the Arameaen resistance. In 727, a revolt took place in the city, but was put down by Assyrian forces. After Assyria went on a wide-scale campaign of quelling revolts throughout Syria, Damascus became totally subjugated by their rule. A positive effect of this was stability for the city and benefits from the spice and incense trade with Arabia. However, Assyrian authority was dwindling by 609–605 BC, and Syria-Palestine was falling into the orbit of Pharaoh Necho II's Egypt. In 572, all of Syria had been conquered by theNeo-Babylonians, but the status of Damascus under Babylon is relatively unknown.[19]
Damascus was conquered by Alexander the Great. After the death of Alexander in 323 BC, Damascus became the site of a struggle between The Seleucid and Ptolemaic empires. The control of the city passed frequently from one empire to the other. Seleucus I Nicator, one of Alexander's generals, made Antioch the capital of his vast empire, which led to the decline of Damascus' importance compared with new Seleucid cities such as Latakia in the north. Later, Demetrius III Philopator rebuilt the city according to the Greek hippodamian system and renamed it "Demetrias".
In 64 BC, the Roman general Pompey annexed the western part of Syria. The Romans occupied Damascus and subsequently incorporated it into the league of ten cities known as the Decapolis because it was considered such an important center of Greco-Roman culture. According to the New Testament, the Apostle Paul was on the road to Damascus when he received a vision of Jesus, and as a result accepted him as the Messiah. In the year 37, Roman Emperor Caligula transferred Damascus to Nabataean control by decree. The Nabataean king Aretas IV Philopatris ruled Damascus from his capital Petra. However, around the year 106, Nabataea was conquered by the Romans, and Damascus returned to Roman control.
Damascus became a metropolis by the beginning of the 2nd century and in 222 it was upgraded to a colonia by the Emperor Septimius Severus. During the Pax Romana, Damascus and the Roman province of Syria in general began to prosper. Damascus's importance as a caravan city was evident with the trade routes from southern Arabia,Palmyra, Petra, and the silk routes from China all converging on it. The city satisfied the Roman demands for eastern luxuries.
Little remains of the architecture of the Romans, but the town planning of the old city did have a lasting effect. The Roman architects brought together the Greek and Aramaean foundations of the city and fused them into a new layout measuring approximately 1,500 meters (4,900 ft) by 750 meters (2,460 ft), surrounded by a city wall. The city wall contained seven gates, but only the eastern gate (Bab Sharqi) remains from the Roman period. Roman Damascus lies mostly at depths of up to five meters (16.4 ft) below the modern city.
The old borough of Bab Tuma was developed at the end of the Roman/Byzantine era by the local Eastern Orthodox community. According to the Acts of the Apostles, the Apostle Paul and the Apostle Thomas both lived in that neighborhood. Roman Catholic historians also consider Bab Tuma to be the birthplace of several Popes such as John V and Gregory III.

References

Notes[edit]
1. ^ Jump up to:a b Central Bureau of Statistics in Syria: Chapter 2: Population & Demographic Indicators Table 3: Estimates of Population actually living in Syria in 31 December 2011 by Mohafazat and six (in thousands)
2. Jump up^ Albaath.news statement by the governor of Damascus, Syria(Arabic), April 2010
3. Jump up^ Central Bureau of Statistics SyriaSyria census 2004
4. Jump up^ List I, 13 in J. Simons, Handbook for the Study of Egyptian Topographical Lists relating to Western Asia, Leiden 1937. See also Y. AHARONI, The Land of the Bible: A Historical Geography, London 1967, p147, No. 13.
5. Jump up^ "(in Book Reviews) Ancient Damascus: A Historical Study of the Syrian City-State from Earliest Times Until Its Fall to the Assyrians in 732 BC., Wayne T. Pitard. Review author: Paul E. Dion, Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 270, Ancient Syria. (May, 1988), p. 98". Links.jstor.org. Retrieved 20 June 2010.
6. Jump up^ "The Stele Dedicated to Melcarth by Ben-Hadad of Damascus, Frank Moore Cross. Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research, No. 205. (Feb., 1972), p. 40". Links.jstor.org. Retrieved 20 June 2010.
7. Jump up^ "Online Etymology Dictionary". Etymonline.com. Retrieved 20 June 2010.
8. Jump up^ "Damascus – Wiktionary". En.wiktionary.org. 9 May 2010. Retrieved 20 June 2010.
9. Jump up^ Moore, A.M.T. The Neolithic of the Levant. Oxford, UK: Oxford University, 1978. 192–198. Print.
10. Jump up^ Burns 2005, p. 2
11. Jump up^ MacMillan, pp. 30–31
12. ^ Jump up to:a b Burns 2005, pp. 5–6
13. ^ Jump up to:a b Burns 2005, p. 7
14. Jump up^ Genesis 14:15 (New International Version). Bible Gateway. Retrieved 25 November 2009.
15. Jump up^ Burns 2005, p. 9
16. ^ Jump up to:a b c Burns 2005, p. 10
17. Jump up^ Burns 2005, pp. 13–14
18. ^ Jump up to:a b Burns 2005, p. 11
19. Jump up^ Burns 2005, pp. 21–23
[source - retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus on 12/04/2013]

THE INDICATED ANCIENT MINOR FULFILLMENT WITH ADDITIONAL ISAIAH COMMENTS:

It appears this prophecy has both a minor and a major fulfillment, i.e., a minor fulfillment in ancient times and a major fulfillment yet to be fulfilled.

Peter Pett in his Commentary of the Bible on Isaiah 17 gives a good coverage of the minor fulfillment in ancient times along with corresponding events in the ancient nation of Israel of that time, but does not deal with the major fulfillment yet to be fulfilled hinted at in Isaiah 17:1, “The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap.” (Authorized King James Bible; (Authorized King James Bible; AV). His coverage is given below:

Verses 1-3
Initial Declaration Concerning Syria (Incorporating Israel) (Isaiah 17:1-3)
Analysis.
• The Burden of Damascus. “Behold Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap (Isaiah 17:1).
• The cities of Aroer are forsaken. They will be for flocks who will lie down, and none will make them afraid (Isaiah 17:2).
• The fortress also will cease from Ephraim, and the kingdom from Damascus (Isaiah 17:3 a).
• And as for the remnant of Syria, they will be as the glory of the children of Israel,” Says Yahweh of hosts (Isaiah 17:3 b).
In ‘a’ Damascus (which represents Syria) is to be destroyed, while in the parallel Syria is to have its glory so dimmed that it will be like that of (northern) Israel. In ‘b and parallel cities, fortress and kingdom will be forsaken and will cease, along with those of Israel (Ephraim).
Isaiah 17:1-3
‘The Burden of Damascus.
“Behold Damascus is taken away from being a city,
And it will be a ruinous heap.
The cities of Aroer are forsaken.
They will be for flocks who will lie down,
And none will make them afraid.
The fortress also will cease from Ephraim,
And the kingdom from Damascus,
And as for the remnant of Syria.
They will be as the glory of the children of Israel,”
Says Yahweh of hosts.’
This oracle was probably given prior to the sacking of Damascus around 735/4 BC. In it Isaiah links Damascus and Syria, with Ephraim (Israel) and the cities of Aroer. Assuming these to be the cities of Aroer in Moabite territory they had once belonged to the Syrian empire (2 Kings 10:33), and also previously to Israel (Joshua 13:9; Joshua 13:16; Judges 11:26; 1 Chronicles 5:. That may be why they are linked here. They were the furthest reaches of Syria’s one time empire, and of the old Israel. This then links this passage back to the previous chapter and indicates that the destruction will go as far down as the Arnon in Transjordan, where Moabite territory begins. On the other hand it is always possible that there were other ‘cities of Aroer’. But it may well be that Syria still saw the cities as theirs even though the Moabites had snatched them back.
The prophecy indicates that Damascus will be sacked and cease to be a city, becoming a ruinous heap; that the cities of Aroer (wherever they were) will become deserted and occupied only by sheep, who will be left alone there with no human beings around to disturb them; that Ephraim (Israel) will cease having fortified cities, having totally lost their independence; that Damascus will have lost kingship; and that Syria will become minuscule.
‘They will be as the glory of the children of Israel, says Yahweh of hosts.’ The ‘glory’ of a nation represented what resources it possessed and what status it had (see Isaiah 8:7; Isaiah 10:3; Isaiah 17:4;Isaiah 22:18; Isaiah 60:13; Ezekiel 25:9). Israel will have been minimalised in both departments. Its ‘glory’ will be little. Thus what is left of Syria too will have little status. And all this will be brought about as a result of Yahweh’s word.

Verses 4-12
The Future That Israel Can Look Forward To (Isaiah 17:4-11).
Israel’s future is bleak, but it will make them set their eyes on their Maker, the Holy One of Israel.
Analysis of Isaiah 17:4-12.
a And it will come about in that day that the glory of Jacob will be made thin, and the fatness of his flesh will wax lean, and it will be as when the harvester gathers the standing corn, and his arms reap the ears. Yes, it will be as when one gleans ears, in the valley of Rephaim (Isaiah 17:4-5).
b “Yet there will be left there in gleanings, as the beating of an olive tree, two or three berries at the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost branches of a fruitful tree,” Says Yahweh, the God of Israel (Isaiah 17:6).
c In that day will a man look to his Maker, and his eyes will have respect to the Holy One of Israel (Isaiah 17:7).
d And he will not look to the altars, to the work of his hands, nor will he have respect to what his fingers have made, either the Asherim or the sun-images (Isaiah 17:.
d In that day will his strong cities be as the forsaken places in the wood and on the mountain top, which were forsaken from before the children of Israel, and it will be a desolation (Isaiah 17:9).
c For you have forgotten the God of your deliverance, and have not been mindful of the rock of your strength (‘your strong rock’) (Isaiah 17:10).
b Therefore you plant ‘desirable’ plants (or ‘plants of the desirable one’), and set it with strange (‘foreign’) slips (Isaiah 17:11 a).
a In the day of your planting you hedge it in, and in the morning you make your seed to blossom, but the harvest flees away in the day of grief and desperate sorrow (Isaiah 17:11 b).
In ‘a’ the future is bleak for Israel, and its harvests will be thin, and in the parallel whatever their efforts they will not enjoy the benefit of their harvests. In ‘b’ even the gleaning will be sparse, and in the parallel it is because they plant foreign plants linked with idolatry. In ‘c’ this will turn their eyes on their Maker, on the Holy One of Israel, and in the parallel this will be necessary because they have forgotten the God of their deliverance, and have not had in mind the Rock of their strength. In ‘d’ they will cease to trifle with the gods who have failed them, for in the parallel their strong cities will be like ancient ruins.
Isaiah 17:4-5
‘And it will come about in that day that the glory of Jacob will be made thin,
And the fatness of his flesh will wax lean,
And it will be as when the harvester gathers the standing corn,
And his arms reap the ears.
Yes, it will be as when one gleans ears,
In the valley of Rephaim.’
If their glory being like that of Israel had raised hopes in Syria, they are now dashed, for here we have confirmation of the reducing of ‘Jacob’s’ glory, the glory of the children of Israel. In the day when God acts it will be made sparse, and much of Israel’s wealth and fruitfulness will disappear. In the same way as the flesh disappears from a very sick man as he lies there in his illness, so will they be lean.
The second picture is of shortage so that the harvester ensures by use of his arms that he drops very little, while the gleaners can thus gather almost nothing. The valley of Rephaim was probably infamous for its poor harvests. It was a place favoured by the Philistine armies when they attacked Israel, possibly suggesting its comparative bareness. And such sparse gleanings from a sparse harvest are a picture of what ‘Jacob’ (Israel) will have to survive on.
Isaiah 17:6
‘And there will be left there in gleanings,
As the beating of an olive tree,
Two or three berries at the top of the uppermost bough,
Four or five in the outmost branches of a fruitful tree,
Says Yahweh, the God of Israel.’
When the olive tree is beaten with sticks to bring down its berries there are always a few that are resistant. In this case what will be left will be only two or three at the top, four or five in the outmost branches. Those are the gleanings (what is left for the poor after harvesting). And that scarcity of gleanings is a picture of Israel’s desperate straits. The gleanings will be almost non-existent because of the poverty of the harvest.
Isaiah 17:7-8
‘In that day will a man look to his Maker,
And his eyes will have respect to the Holy One of Israel.
And he will not look to the altars,
To the work of his hands,
Nor will he have respect to what his fingers have made,
Either the Asherim or the sun-images.’
But suddenly, out of the blue, good comes out of bad. This is typical of Isaiah (compare Isaiah 10:20-22). He now describes the holy stock (Isaiah 6:13). The result of this chastening will be that some, the remnant, will look to their Maker, and will give due regard to the Holy One of Israel, for there will be nowhere else to look. Their eyes will be turned and fixed on Him, and they will look to Him constantly in their daily lives and have due regard to His covenant. For their idols will have failed them and they will turn to God from idols and serve the living and true God, and wait for the promised Immanuel. They will turn away from hand-made altars, and man-fashioned idols, whether Asherim (wooden poles or images representing the goddess of the fertility cult) or sun-images. Thus it is clear that the worship of the sun-images and of the Asherah-images was at this time predominant in Israel.
Note the stark contrast between God the Maker (compare Isaiah 44:2; Isaiah 51:13; Isaiah 54:5) and man His creation on the one hand (man will look to his Maker), with man the maker, and the gods of his creation on the other (he will not look to his own handywork or to what his fingers have made). They should note that there is only one God Who is never fashioned and shaped by man, the One Who Himself created all things and can never be represented by an acceptable image. He is thus saying, do not look to the altars and their gods but look at them and see what they really are, the works of men’s hands, merely a part of creation and the product of men’s minds and fingers.
Isaiah 17:9
‘In that day will his strong cities be as the forsaken places in the wood and on the mountain top, which were forsaken from before the children of Israel, and it will be a desolation.’
But while some will be pleasing to God the righteousness of the righteous will not deliver the majority in the day when God acts. Their strong, fortified cities will be deserted. They will become like the well known ruins of ancient Canaanite cities in the forest, or on mountain tops, where no one went any longer, cities that had been deserted because of the arrival of the children of Israel in the power of Yahweh. What had been done by His power when they were faithful to the covenant, would be done to them now that they had broken the covenant and lost His power. They were now as sinful as the Canaanites had been for they had copied their ways. Thus the whole land would be a desolation.
Isaiah 17:10-11
‘For you have forgotten the God of your deliverance,
And have not been mindful of the rock of your strength (‘your strong rock’).
Therefore you plant ‘desirable’ plants (or ‘plants of the desirable one’),
And set it with strange (‘foreign’) slips.
In the day of your planting you hedge it in,
And in the morning you make your seed to blossom,
But the harvest flees away in the day of grief and desperate sorrow.’
This is in parallel with Isaiah 17:7. All this will happen to them because they had forgotten God the deliverer. The contrast is between the God of Deliverance (Who is also God their Maker), even the Strong Rock, Who had destroyed those Canaanite cities through His once faithful people, and their present feeble attempts, the product of turning to the ways of the Canaanites, to affect nature by force-growing plants dedicated to a ‘desirable’ god, (a beautiful image), and slips from foreign plants which had similar religious significance, and putting them in pots or baskets and making them grow unnaturally quickly so as to stimulate nature, all feeble attempts to stimulate life. They would discover that it would be useless. They would die just as quickly as they grew (compare Matthew 13:5-6). Thus when the day of grief and desperate sorrow comes the harvest from their efforts will be unable to help them. It flees away in helplessness and embarrassment.
The slips from foreign plants were also a hint of what they were seeking to do in seeking help and alliances from foreign nations. Those too would flee away in the day of trouble.
So the charge is that they have forgotten God their Maker, and they have forgotten the Delivering God Who had delivered them from Egypt, and from many foes since; the Delivering God Who had delivered up the cities of the Canaanites to them; the God Who is a strength-giving Rock; the God Who has proved Himself by His actions, and they have turned to nature gods who have no power, who cannot deliver or protect them, who failed the Canaanites, and who cannot strengthen in the hour of need.
But as a result of all that will befall them those who are left will turn and look to Him. The emphasis on their looking to God as their Maker and the Holy One of Israel may suggest the thought that they are having to go right back to basics. They turn to Him as the One Who had made them, and as the One Who had specially favoured Israel by His own choice. They have lost their right to Him as the Deliverer.

Verses 12-14
A Glimpse of Hope For The Future (Isaiah 17:12-14).
Having depicted the dark future for Israel, apart from the remnant, Isaiah now goes on to encourage all of God’s people who will listen. No earthly power is all-powerful. They are subject to the Creator. So if His people are willing to trust in Him then just as He rebuked the waters at creation, so will He now rebuke the overflowing waters of the enemy so that they will quickly recede before Him.
Analysis.
a Ah, the uproar of many peoples, who roar like the roaring of the seas, and the rushing of nations, who rush like the rushing of mighty waters (Isaiah 17:12).
b The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters, but He will rebuke them and they will flee far off (Isaiah 17:13 a).
b And they will be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like the swirling dust before the storm (Isaiah 17:13 b).
a At eventide, behold, terror. Before the morning they are not. This is the portion of those who spoil us, and the lot of those who rob us (Isaiah 17:14).
In ‘a’ the nations come on with a great rush, seemingly invincibly, but in the parallel terror strikes them, and before the morning they are not. This is the lot of those who attack God’s people. It was illustrated most powerfully in what happened to Sennacherib’s forces before Jerusalem (Isaiah 37:36). In ‘b’ the nations will rush like the rushing of many waters, but He will rebuke them and they will flee far off, and thus in the parallel they will be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind, and like the swirling dust before the storm.
Isaiah 17:12-13
‘Ah, the uproar of many peoples,
Who roar like the roaring of the seas,
And the rushing of nations,
Who rush like the rushing of mighty waters.
The nations will rush like the rushing of many waters,
But he will rebuke them and they will flee far off,
And will be chased as the chaff of the mountains before the wind,
And like the swirling dust before the storm.’
We have again here Isaiah’s vision of many nations (compare Isaiah 13:4-5), a picture of the tumult and restlessness among such nations, and of their racing to overflow the people of God, only to be driven back by God’s rebuke. At this they will disappear, fleeing as chaff before the wind. The picture is partly based on poetic conceptions of creation when the waters obeyed the voice of Yahweh (Psalms 104:7). Men always seek to overwhelm, but they are subject to Him just as the waters were, for He is the Creator.
That Assyria, which regularly gathered conquered nations under its banner, is largely in mind we cannot doubt. And Isaiah is thus assuring God’s people that if they trust in Him God will finally rebuke them and they will flee, as indeed they did from Jerusalem in the siege of 701 BC (Isaiah 37:36). But he is deliberately keeping his thoughts general, for he wants them to know that this will not only be true of Assyria but of all who come against God’s trusting people. If only they would trust Him this is what would happen.
And through history many nations would roar like a tempestuous sea, and rush in like the raging tide, seeking to swamp Israel, but always in the end they would have to retreat at God’s rebuke. This was Isaiah’s vision. God had not forgotten them. He would preserve His true people, His remnant, through all. And in the end those nations would disappear, blown like chaff across the mountains, like the swirling dust caught up in a storm, scattered and landing no one knows where (except God), while God’s own people will be preserved.
Isaiah 17:14
‘At eventide, behold, terror.
Before the morning they are not.
This is the portion of those who spoil us,
And the lot of those who rob us.’
The question here is whether the reference to terror is in respect of Israel’s terror in the face of their enemies, or is God’s terror revealed against their adversaries. Isaiah knew that trust in God did not mean that there would be no trials. There would indeed be times which would arouse terror in many of their hearts, and His people would be spoiled and robbed. But just as evening, and gathering night, soon become morning, so would disappear the dark night of the enemies of God’s people who spoiled and robbed them. Their portion is to disappear at the approach of light.
But Yahweh was also a Terror to their enemies, and this may have in mind especially what happened to the forces of Sennacherib as a picture of God’s continually protecting hand over His people and revealing His terror against their enemies..
Note the inference that those who are evil always seek to do their work in the dark, they are children of darkness. But they disappear when daylight approaches for they are afraid of the light. And in the same way, however dark the night, God always finally brings morning for His people.
If Isaiah had the creation story in mind in his description of the rebuking of the waters, he may well also have it in mind here. The evening comes first, and then the morning, and by morning God’s work is completed. (This would serve to confirm the parabolic nature of the description in Genesis of the cessation of His work). For a similar idea compare Psalms 30:5.
So having delivered his oracle Isaiah adds this appendix to encourage his hearers (‘us’). They need not be afraid, for the One Who brought light out of darkness, the light of the world, the controller of the raging seas, is with them (compare Psalms 46:5).

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These files are public domain.
Bibliography Information
[source - Pett, Peter. "Commentary on Isaiah 17". "Peter Pett's Commentary on the Bible ". http://www.odl.mdivs.edu/com/pet/view.cgi?bk=22&ch=17. 2013.]
MAJOR FULFILLMENT YET TO BE FULFILLED HINTED AT IN ISAIAH 17:1

Isaiah 17:1 says, “A pronouncement against Damascus: “Look! Damascus will cease to be a city, And it will become a heap of ruins.” NWS.

Damascus is considered one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities in the world, if not the oldest, so the prophecy appears to be unfulfilled as of the time of this writing. Many people believe the events of Isaiah 17 will be some of the next prophetic events to occur. Some speculate that Damascus will be nuked by Israel when the events of Isaiah 17 transpire. Given the ongoing turmoil within Syria and the ongoing tension between Israel and Syria, it would be useful to examine when the events of Isaiah 17 might be fulfilled.
* I will attempt to pinpoint the general timeframe when the events of Isaiah 17 will transpire in this article.

Isaiah 17 opens with the words “the burden of Damascus”, which indicates that Damascus is the subject of a troublesome prophecy. The troublesome nature of the prophecy is immediately revealed with verse 1 describing the city of Damascus as "a ruinous heap". [source - retrieved from http://prophecyproof.blogspot.com/2013/04/isaiah-17-pinpointing-timing-of.html on 12/03/2013]

This major fulfillment could occur as the author above suggested, i.e., ‘that Damascus will be nuked by Israel,’ but it appears more likely it will occur at the Culmination of the End Times; however, it is to occur, “Damascus will cease to be a city, And it will become a heap of ruins.” But let’s explore the Culmination of the End Times most likely fulfillment of the major part of this prophecy.

Here is some information on the end times, “Many wonder about the culmination of the end times, when it will come, what part will Christians play in it, how vast the destruction will be, how and why wickedness will be destroyed, does destruction of the wicked violate the principle of 'agape' love, and most of all how to survive. This great destruction that will shortly be upon us is known to many as Armageddon and will do away with all present political systems and replace them with direct rule by God's (YHWH) appointed agent, Jesus (Yeshua) Christ.

However, Just as in times past, such as the days of Noah, the righteous will be delivered while the wicked are being destroyed as shown at Matthew 24:37-39, "And as were the days of Noah, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark." (American Standard Version; ASV); And affirmed at 1 Peter 3:20, "that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is eight souls, were saved through water." (ASV).” [source - retrieved from “The Culmination of the End Times:” by Iris the Preacher, or at (2 nd. Post down) at http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/thread-101-post-249.html#pid249 on 12/04/2013] [[Note, more information can be gained on 1 st. post on http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/thread-101-post-249.html#pid249)

CONCLUSION

It appears that most likely the prophecy found at Isaiah 17:1 – 3 most likely has both a minor and a major fulfillment.(option 3 in Introductioon)

The ancient minor fulfillment was completed in ancient times, but the major fulfillment has not yet occurred. How so? Specifically, Damascus today is NOT “…and it shall be a ruinous heap.” As is Babylon. So its major destruction is probably a future event.

Now to know the truth, go to:

1) http://religioustruths.forumsland.com/

2) http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209/

3) http://religioustruths.lefora.com/

4) http://religioustruths.boardhost.com/

5) http://religious-truths.forums.com/

6) http://religioustruthsbyiris.createmybb3.com/

7) https://religioustruths.forumotion.com/

To enjoy an online Bible study called “Follow the Christ” go to, http://religious-truths.forums.com/default/digital-book-on-18-part-follow-christ-bible-study-3?replies=6#post-1421

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

Francis David said it long ago, "Neither the sword of popes...nor the image of death will halt the march of truth. "Francis David, 1579, written on the wall of his prison cell." Read the book, "What Does The Bible Really Teach" and the Bible today, and go to http://www.jw.org!

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